What did you do in the Apiary today?

[Beefriendly]

treated with Apiguard in September. I think the little darlings have been busy robbing out a weaker colony or two.
.

Or that apiguard doesn't work well in all cases, particularly in Sept?
Many keep saying that large numbers of varroa are due to robbing. I think it's much more complicated than that and perhaps something we don't yet understand about varroa levels increasing rapidly in certain hives.
Randy Oliver talks about mite bombs, hives that simply have far too many varroa. I've just finished treating two of mine. These were well vaped (4x) and showed very little drop in October....yet where dropping 1000's in December. They weren't out robbing in Nov or Dec (at least not up here they weren't) as largely confined to hives ...plus their other surrounding dozen or so hives showed no increase like these.
Without ripping the brood nest apart my main thoughts were these where bees that continued brooding long past their fellows alongside. Or the initial OA treatment wasn't as effective as I thought they where.....this would be strange as all hives treated at same time and same way plus hives dropping 1000's of mites suggests that the OA is working quite well....but perhaps not at the claimed 95-96% kill levels in broodless colonies.

 

[Wingy]

Or that apiguard doesn't work well in all cases, particularly in Sept?
Many keep saying that large numbers of varroa are due to robbing. I think it's much more complicated than that and perhaps something we don't yet understand about varroa levels increasing rapidly in certain hives.
Randy Oliver talks about mite bombs, hives that simply have far too many varroa. I've just finished treating two of mine. These were well vaped (4x) and showed very little drop in October....yet where dropping 1000's in December. They weren't out robbing in Nov or Dec (at least not up here they weren't) as largely confined to hives ...plus their other surrounding dozen or so hives showed no increase like these.
Without ripping the brood nest apart my main thoughts were these where bees that continued brooding long past their fellows alongside. Or the initial OA treatment wasn't as effective as I thought they where.....this would be strange as all hives treated at same time and same way plus hives dropping 1000's of mites suggests that the OA is working quite well....but perhaps not at the claimed 95-96% kill levels in broodless colonies.

Thanks for that, it’s been a massive learning curve for me this year. Got 3 hives now all treated the same, garden hive (from 2018 Nuc to full hive) dropped 4 mites after vaping & 2 allotment hives (from over wintered colony, split & made double brood) still dropping 40+ mites per day over the last week.

 

[GuyNir]

Anyone here not treating at all?

 

[Beefriendly]

B+....but he has a slight advantage.

 

[GuyNir]

B+....but he has a slight advantage.

Thanks. Good to know I’m not the only one.

Slight advantage meaning?

 

[Jimmy]

I've not monitored every hive of mine but I have a similar experience to the one Beefriendly describes above on a couple of hives I keep at home in the garden - one was dropping hundreds, the adjacent other only a handful. They were both given a 2nd winter treatment today and I'll monitor mite fall over the next week.

 

[Stiffy]

Thanks. Good to know I’m not the only one.

Slight advantage meaning?

VSH bees
S

 

[B+.]

B+....but he has a slight advantage.

You may think I have an advantage, but, a lot of it is believing in what you're doing and being prepared to take a risk.
It's not always straightforward. Queens that perform well and you have high hopes for can still fail. The secret is to keep moving forward and improve what you have year after year.
In my 2019 test group, I have 2 full-sibs with an expected breeding value of 133% (3 s.d. above the 5-year mean)...however, if they die in an accident, they might never be given the opportunity to prove their worth

 

[GuyNir]

You may think I have an advantage, but, a lot of it is believing in what you're doing and being prepared to take a risk.
It's not always straightforward. Queens that perform well and you have high hopes for can still fail. The secret is to keep moving forward and improve what you have year after year.

Well said. For the last 2-3 years I’m told my hives would be gone or declining because I’m not treating. Reality is far from it.

 

[Beefriendly]

Slight advantage meaning?

He has access to Carniolan Varroa Sensitive Hygiene bee lines that us mere mortals don't.
Not available commercially I'm afraid.

 

[Beefriendly]

Well said. For the last 2-3 years I’m told my hives would be gone or declining because I’m not treating. Reality is far from it.

......and parts of Scotland are still varroa free...so where are you regarding varroa map?

 

[GuyNir]

......and parts of Scotland are still varroa free...so where are you regarding varroa map?

South West Scotland

 

[Beefriendly]

So your bees have parasites which you are happy to let them live with?

I worm my cat's every few months...their health is important to me.
I treat my bees for varroa as their health is also important to me.

 

[GuyNir]

So your bees have parasites which you are happy to let them live with?

I worm my cat's every few months...their health is important to me.
I treat my bees for varroa as their health is also important to me.

Reality shows my bees cope well.
I do what I think is right.

Wish your cat long, happy life and good health

 

[oliver90owner]

GN,

Don’t be bullied by the usual mob. I know that all my colonies have a varroa load. Monitoring that load and avoidance of things like deformed wings on offspring can be far better, if not just as good as, than treating when not needed. Bees will happily survive with some mites - it is excesses that degrade the hives until the colony dies.

The most important thing is that the varroa load is low before the winter bees are produced, so they are virus-free and will easily survive the winter rest period. A large colony, of say 50,000 bees, can easily ‘support’ a 2% varroa loading, whereas if that same number of mites is soon living with a reduced colony size in the autumn, of say 10,000 bees, the loading is now 10% and may not be sustainable.

Monitoring and not treating, unless necessary, is an acceptable way of keeping bees. You may be lucky and the varroa mites in your colonies are not excessive or of a too-aggressive strain. However, I would expect you to be monitoring them...

Thirty years ago, varroa infestation inevitably led to colony decline and usually death because honeybees were not accustomed to this new parasite. As time progresses, the bees can accommodate these parasites in some cases and survive, eventually the ‘fittest’ will survive. At the same time, parasites are self-defeating if they actually kill their host, so some have become less invasive.

The combination of the two effects might well be manifested in your colonies, resulting in an equilibrium state of the bees living with a manageable parasite load.

Cats often have fleas. If there were an ever-increasing number of fleas, the cat would eventually die. Fleas are often more of a nuisance to the cat’s owner than to the cat. All things are a balance in life...

 

[GuyNir]

Thanks Oliver, true.

People often confuse ‘not treating’ with ‘ignoring the problem’ and/or ‘not monitoring’. This isn’t the case.

Seeing no winter loses for the past 3 years, no sign of issues such as DWV etc’ and no sign of varroa when I tear drone brood from time to time is good enough indication the bees are coping with this fine on their own.

 

[Eyeman]

Thanks Oliver, true.

People often confuse ‘not treating’ with ‘ignoring the problem’ and/or ‘not monitoring’. This isn’t the case.

Seeing no winter loses for the past 3 years, no sign of issues such as DWV etc’ and no sign of varroa when I tear drone brood from time to time is good enough indication the bees are coping with this fine on their own.

There's a difference between colonies surviving and colonies thriving. I want mine to thrive.

 

[SDM]

GN,
At the same time, parasites are self-defeating if they actually kill their host, so some have become less invasive.

..

Seems you dont know even the basics about varroa. Wiping out a colony is the most effective means available to varroa for dispersal. Failing colonies get robbed out infecting neighbouring colonies.
Consequently there is zero selective pressure on varroa to be less virulent .

 

[For want of a better word]

Seems you dont know even the basics about varroa. Wiping out a colony is the most effective means available to varroa for dispersal. Failing colonies get robbed out infecting neighbouring colonies.
Consequently there is zero selective pressure on varroa to be less virulent .

Constant battle against the beastly mite..... little buggers become noticeable when one of the "treatment free" brigade starts to loose colonies near one of your own apiaries...

Signs to look out for... Caravans and Yurts... large veggie plots... late night tambourine playing.....

 

[B+.]

There's a difference between colonies surviving and colonies thriving. I want mine to thrive.

Would you say these colonies were thriving?
2018 https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3907 & https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3906
2017 https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3832
2016 https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744
None were treated yet all produced sizable crops.

I typically find low mite counts (i.e. 3/30g sample taken in the first week of July). This is well below the treatment threshold and probably below that of treated colonies.