What did I do wrong?

[MartinJG]

I share the responses you have received, but also wonder if too much insulation is a good thing?
Insulation may protect the bees from adverse outside temperatures, with the result that cluster formation for winter is diminished, and maybe brood rearing continues throughout the winter. Then the cover board is lifted off the hive, with a resultant flow of cold air coming into the brood box, resulting in an outpouring of bees bent on protecting their domain.
My experience in your situation, apart from not insulating the hives, is that the bees are clustered and by in large non responsive to OA treatment in the time it takes to trickle it in.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I share the responses you have received, but also wonder if too much insulation is a good thing?
Insulation may protect the bees from adverse outside temperatures, with the result that cluster formation for winter is diminished, and maybe brood rearing continues throughout the winter. Then the cover board is lifted off the hive, with a resultant flow of cold air coming into the brood box, resulting in an outpouring of bees bent on protecting their domain.
My experience in your situation, apart from not insulating the hives, is that the bees are clustered and by in large non responsive to OA treatment in the time it takes to trickle it in.

*****

 

[user 6228]

I share the responses you have received, but also wonder if too much insulation is a good thing?
Insulation may protect the bees from adverse outside temperatures, with the result that cluster formation for winter is diminished, and maybe brood rearing continues throughout the winter. Then the cover board is lifted off the hive, with a resultant flow of cold air coming into the brood box, resulting in an outpouring of bees bent on protecting their domain.
My experience in your situation, apart from not insulating the hives, is that the bees are clustered and by in large non responsive to OA treatment in the time it takes to trickle it in.

In high insulation nests:
Clustering takes place but seem to be more dependant on light levels than outside temperature. A row of rainy dark days makes them cluster. They do have Broodless periods.

The level of insulation needs to be compared to tree nest environments. The levels of insulation mentioned here are still within the range of insulation of tree nests. So it is not surprising that the bees can get on with bee things. Though at the very beginning of this I wasn't quite as sure.

 

[beenovice]

To be honest I didn't realise I was pioneering. I am working on such a tight budget and was paranoid about losing them over the winter. I though insulating was the done thing! I am starting to lose my nerve when I open them up. Hopefully the spring will bring a better experience and with it confidence. I have been making hives this weekend, so not giving up yet!

 

[BeeJayBee]

... As soon as I lifted the crown board off I was met by a barrage of bees on the offensive.

... When I put the mouse guard on in November I got a bad reception too.
Any thoughts?

Just a separate thought, do you know if the colony was queenright in November?

 

[pargyle]

In high insulation nests:
Clustering takes place but seem to be more dependant on light levels than outside temperature. A row of rainy dark days makes them cluster. /QUOTE]

Thanks Derek ... That's interesting and exactly what I had noticed ... I thought it was just my nutty bees ... they have been flying on sunny days when the temperature has been very low but stay indoors on quite warm but overcast days.

Is this something that happens in conventional hives or is it a characteristic confined to insulated hives ?

 

[beenovice]

I am not 100% sure if the colony is queen rite. I put a MAQS treatment on the hive on the 01st September and removed it on 07th. On 14th September. I have noted that the queen was not spotted, but there was larvae in various stages. Would the colony still be strong if it was queenless?

 

[richardbees]

Clustering takes place but seem to be more dependant on light levels than outside temperature. A row of rainy dark days makes them cluster

No, I don't think so -= never seen them clustering during a rainy 'Wimbledon' week

 

[drfraz]

I think some bees don't like the cold. Mine are very placid on nice sunny afternoons, requiring no smoke and taking little interest as I take their home to bits, but when I've had to open up first thing in the morning or in winter for Oxcalic acid treatment it makes me wonder why I do this!
Wait & see how they are acting on the first nice warm day of spring before you plan on anything major.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I think some bees don't like the cold. Mine are very placid on nice sunny afternoons,

Quite right, some strains resent being opened up in cool weather and can be a bit defensive, which often means late evenings in summer as well.

 

[user 6228]

Clustering takes place but seem to be more dependant on light levels than outside temperature. A row of rainy dark days makes them cluster

No, I don't think so -= never seen them clustering during a rainy 'Wimbledon' week

If you want me to be precise : temps below 10c external are no longer a sufficient condition for clustering. In the observed range it also requires low light levels.

 

[djg]

I'd guess that your hive is queenless, by your description of the bees, beenovice.

I hope that I'm wrong, for your sake.

 

[madasafish]

My hives are insulated, I don't do OA in winter and never have. They are normally very good natured and I keep with no gloves and only a jacket and veil. But if I opened them up on a cold day in spring or autumn, they will get very annoyed and issue out and sting me.

(and yes I always keep a lit smoker ready but rarely use it).


If I did OA , i would expect the same reaction except in very cold weather when they will be semi torpid. But the weather is very mild 7-10C,

 

[beenovice]

If the hive is queenless, is there anything I can do at this stage? Or any way of checking for certain?

 

[VEG]

Only way of checking at this time of year is to take frames out of the hive to see if there are eggs in there. The queen could still be there even if no eggs are found, if she is on a brood break. I would leave them to it and see what you have in the spring.

 

[beenovice]

Just as a matter of interest, How long could a queenless hive last?

 

[Ely]

Depends on how big the colony is and whether or they have eggs to raise a new queen.

 

[user 6228]

Just as a matter of interest, How long could a queenless hive last?

in an insulated hive, we have one last until april.

 

[maddydog]

OA treated my 3 hives on a cool (5c sunny) day last week. 2 hives are cedar, 1 with 50mm 'eke'd' kingspan the other 150mm 'eke'd' kingspan both under standard roofs. The 3rd hive is a paynes poly nuc with a 50mm kingspan cozy that completely surrounds the hive bar the floor and entrance.

The 3 hives each had approximately 5-6 frames of bees and were all very docile, had a few flyers but nothing more. Driving from one site to the other I even had a couple of hitch-hikers crawling around my neck and up my leg with no intent to sting.

Wouldn't surprise me if your colony was queen-

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Yes the thermal change of taking the top off in cold weather can make them temporarily agressive. I've had this. but then on a warmer day they have been back to being docile. With your level of insulation they are warm enough to fly and defend even on the coldest days. This is a big difference to conventional bee keeping.

jumping straight in to this level of insulation is a big step for a begginer as there almost no mentors who have done this before.

beware of the much lower levels of stores needed
beware the changes in bee numbers compared to a conventional hive.
beware Oxalic acid and other treatments have not been tested on highly insulated colonies. It has been reported that the treatments are more active at higher temperatures this may also mean they damage the bees more.
beware dont take the insulation cover off for more than few minutes as the bee organisation will rely on it. once you have a colony adapted to this level of insulation any reduction in insulation may set them back

note for next year a 150mm on the roof may be too much. 50mm or 100mm is enough but dont change it now.


Well done for taking a leap into the unorthodox beekeeping of tree nest level insulation.

My 19mm plywood 14x12 National has a "shell" consisting of 50mm Kingspan walls and 100mm roof (covered in aluminium to shed water). I will not do an OA treatment and was thinking about opening up to check for stores but from what DerekM is saying this may disturb them at a time when they are comfortably sitting out the winter. They were flying in the sunshine on Saturday but otherwise have weathered the storms indoors.

The big question then is whether to open up to check for stores or just slap on some fondant "just in case" or leave them to get on with it. OR wait for a warm day, say 13 degrees, to open up and hope I don't do too much harm.

Oh the worry!

CVB