wbc parts check (do i need anything else)

[luap321]

I have never kept bees ,I have a wbc hive i need to get a few bits for and make some repairs to its not to bad it has a solid floor but needs the rear board changed i have 2 outer frames at least one needs some new wood for the lip that runs round the inside about 10mm square i have a nice brood box and one nice super one ok with a clean ,loads of frames that were all fitted with new foundation that has got warm and gone abit wiggley but i do have new un-wired foundation i need to find out how to fit, i have a queen excluder and a crown board with a round hole for a feeder but no feeder and a roof that is ok ish but i think i will replace the ply in it ,i also have a tub of spare metal and plastic spacers that go on the frames, bee escapes some cone bits for the roof .
so as far as i can see i need 2 outer frames a porch, 1 super ,cavity lath,mouse guard and a normal crown board ?

im hoping to get a jacket and viel next week and i have a smoker hive tool and brush

 

[Ian123]

Hi one thing you can be certain of with bees is you’ll rarely have enough kit!!!! With your super and brood that’s enough to install a small nuc later in the season.
To give you an idea a big hive is likely to be a couple of brood boxes and five or six supers. This doesn’t include any extras for swarm control measures!
With wbc hives you’ll also require the additional lifts.
I’d consider National hives as they are compatible with what you already have and available at much reduced cost in the sales and compared to WBC hives.
If you’ve not already on a course you really need to consider 1 and get some hands on experience ideally before getting your bees and spending a fortune on kit….
Good luck ian

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I suggest that before you get any bees that you read a few good books, join your local association and even look at getting enrolled on a beekeeping course.

 

[drex]

If you are serious about getting into beekeeping I agree with JBM.
Think long term. It is better to have one type of hive in your set up. The minimum number of colonies to keep is two ( but you will have a job keeping the numbers down) .
Just because you have been gifted a few bits for a WBC ( and as already stated you will need more bits for that one hive) , does not mean you have to stick with WBC. They are one of the most expensive to buy.
I do not like them, but each to their own.
I suggest you research a bit before parting with more cash, and see if somebody will actually let you look in their hives before anything else.
This is a wonderful hobby and I hope you enjoy it, but suggest you get more info before going down blind alleys which will cost you time, money and heartache. I do not mean any of this to be as negative as it might sound.

 

[luap321]

Hi one thing you can be certain of with bees is you’ll rarely have enough kit!!!! With your super and brood that’s enough to install a small nuc later in the season.
To give you an idea a big hive is likely to be a couple of brood boxes and five or six supers. This doesn’t include any extras for swarm control measures!
With wbc hives you’ll also require the additional lifts.
I’d consider National hives as they are compatible with what you already have and available at much reduced cost in the sales and compared to WBC hives.
If you’ve not already on a course you really need to consider 1 and get some hands on experience ideally before getting your bees and spending a fortune on kit….
Good luck ian

hi thanks for your reply i didnt know you could use more than one brood box if you were in a position where you didnt have enough room could you use a super and have a brood and super for brood .
i had decided nationals would be good for my next hive and would like to maybe put nationals in wbc outer lifts

 

[Jules59]

...would like to maybe put nationals in wbc outer lifts

why? For aesthetic reasons ?
Ive never heard of anyone using Nationals with WBC lifts.
FWIW National boxes are heavier than WBC ones because they are larger, take an extra frame (which also adds weight) and made from timber 3mm thicker (19mm vs 16mm).

 

[Ian123]

Brood and a half is a pain many here operate on double broods it’s quite normal plus your wbc boxes are smaller, I have some that will require 3 broods.

 

[Ian123]

why? For aesthetic reasons ?
Ive never heard of anyone using Nationals with WBC lifts.
FWIW National boxes are heavier than WBC ones because they are larger, take an extra frame (which also adds weight) and made from timber 3mm thicker (19mm vs 16mm).

Sticking national boxes into wbc lifts is often done mainly for aesthetics plus wbc inners are notoriously flimsy!

 

[luap321]

as a general answer not including poly or plastic , i thought wbc hives were best as they are warmer with the air gap insulating them may be giving more honey , i thought other single walled hives were designed after the war due to timber shortage ,from what i can make of it nationals are very common . if you have a lot of hives to check you would not want to double your work with a wbc but if you had a few bees in your garden it would not bee such an issue
so i thought although it may cost as much to make good the wbc as it would cost to buy a national i thought i would have a better hive i had read that people put nationals in wbc and thought it was for the warm and the more common frame size if getting a nuc ect but i have now found out they have the same frames so the only advantage to me would be to make a plate so i could line up a national super on my wbc and my next hive will be a national as i cant afford another wbc ,so i will have a national and a wbc unless i build one but i have nether really done dove tails im more chicken house or ferret hutch type of wood work .
it all gets complicated when you have people saying dont go spending loads of money on a new hive just use what you got and see how you get on and also im sort of tied to this wbc hive as half of it was my dads uncle,s that my uncle gave me and the other bit is not geat and it seemed like it made a hole hive ! when the two 1/2s are combined but with a bit more digging i have found two half's make a two thirds and i just ordered the rest that cost more than a 2nd grade national but im learning
i did read a lot about bee keeping about 5 years ago and its been on the back burner for a while due to ill health , i have a friend that does not like bees but knows lots about them and he can ask advise from his brother who has a lot of hives(hundreds ) and my uncle used to help his uncle on my grandads side of the family who was very knowledgeable about bees think he used to give talks about them some times so i think my uncle picked up more than he realises as he can talk for hrs about them but has not had his own but he would of helped my grandad as well and i think it was a common topic in there house when he was growing up as my nans brother had bees as well so when ever the family got together the would be a lot of bee conversation my dad worked on the railway and didnt have time for bees when i have a suit (hoping Tuesday) my mate is going to ask his brother if i could go and watch him / help one day

 

[Newbeeneil]

why? For aesthetic reasons ?
Ive never heard of anyone using Nationals with WBC lifts.
FWIW National boxes are heavier than WBC ones because they are larger, take an extra frame (which also adds weight) and made from timber 3mm thicker (19mm vs 16mm).

I put nationals in WBC lifts. Gives 10% more room than WBC brood boxes.

 

[luap321]

I put nationals in WBC lifts. Gives 10% more room than WBC brood boxes.

did you have to make any alterations or use a smaller cavity lath
thanks paul

 

[Newbeeneil]

did you have to make any alterations or use a smaller cavity lath
thanks paul

No, The internal dimension of the WBC lifts is 473mm whereas the external dimension of the national box is 460 so it fits without any alterations.

 

[North End Bees]

Join your local beekeeping association (less than £10 as an associate member) so you can get hands on with the different sorts of equipment. Plus also find out if you actually like working with bees!

Lots of people have one system or another which they're not entirely happy with but have carried on because it's what they started with (often was given) and the investment is too great to change everything some years later.

 

[Christine Hamilton]

I started with a cedar wbc, but have now moved entirely to nationals. They are simpler to access , hold more frames and are cheaper to buy. I run with brood and a half. A full brood box is heavy so I keep it on the bottom and have the super on top. Definitely go a course and join your local group, although forums like this one are excellent for advice. Also google WBKA Wally Shaw and printout out his advisory leaflets they are excellent.

 

[luap321]

do the Ministery of agriculture,fisheries and food agricultural development and advisory service still exist and do they still give out or sell leaflets
i have 306 foul brood, 367 the british natoinal ,445 the smith hive, 561 honeybee drood diseases and disorders ,412 feeding bees ,468 the modified commercial hive,473 nosema and amoeba &566 dysentery in bees i assume not all the leaflets were about bees but there must bee loads i have not got like wbc hive and probaly a few hundred more buy now i also wounder if any advice has changed

 

[JamezF]

MAFF disappeared about twenty years ago when it was incorporated into DEFRA. I know the NBU publishes various advisory leaflets linked from here. They'd cover some of the areas you mention.

James

 

[luap321]

MAFF disappeared about twenty years ago when it was incorporated into DEFRA. I know the NBU publishes various advisory leaflets linked from here. They'd cover some of the areas you mention.

James

thanks thats a great link thank you

 

[ericbeaumont]

i thought other single walled hives were designed after the war due to timber shortage

Single-walled hives were around almost anywhere in the world well before the Second World War, and it was enlightened beefarmers such as ROB Manley who challenged the Victorian vicar idea of WBCs and advocated instead the single-wall for practical efficiency and reduced cost.

Your story of how you arrived at beekeeping has great charm and there is no harm in cobbling together the old WBC you have and giving it a go, but if you were to carry on down the WBC road it will turn out to be an expensive trip.

Before you put bees in it, take the time to scrape any wax or propolis off it (burn the scrapings) and scorch the wood parts inside and out with a plumber's blowtorch. The heat will kill any bacterial disease, which is risk with used kit. Scorch to the colour of toast, no more.

Longer-term, better value would be a hive such as a Maisemore National in cedar seconds in the sales (don't mind the knots) or an Abelo poly National (best design, best thermal efficiency and very light).

As you have had no formal training (will you join your local BKA and sign up for a training course?) the next best guide is a copy of the Haynes Bee Manual.

 

[luap321]

Single-walled hives were around almost anywhere in the world well before the Second World War, and it was enlightened beefarmers such as ROB Manley who challenged the Victorian vicar idea of WBCs and advocated instead the single-wall for practical efficiency and reduced cost.

Your story of how you arrived at beekeeping has great charm and there is no harm in cobbling together the old WBC you have and giving it a go, but if you were to carry on down the WBC road it will turn out to be an expensive trip.

Before you put bees in it, take the time to scrape any wax or propolis off it (burn the scrapings) and scorch the wood parts inside and out with a plumber's blowtorch. The heat will kill any bacterial disease, which is risk with used kit. Scorch to the colour of toast, no more.

Longer-term, better value would be a hive sucha as Maisemore National in cedar seconds in the sales (don't mind the knots) or an Abelo poly National (best design, best thermal efficiency and very light).

As you have had no formal training (will you join your local BKA and sign up for a training course?) the next best guide is a copy of the Haynes Bee Manual.

hi thanks for the reply ,long term ,i like the benefit of poly but due to compatibility i am going for wood national so, at a push i could use the supers in the wbc i have just recived my 2nds parts for the wbc very good price 2 lifts 2 supers one of each is a bit disappointing so i think in future i will buy 2nds from from bee equipment they are dearer (than the cheapest on the internet ) but only down the road so no postage cost and i will see what im getting they didnt do wbc stuff or i would of probably got it from them but they said they will be stocking it soon ,at a glance that bottom video has been very helpfull as i didnt know what hight to fit the porch ,i will watch them soon as i will be assembling this morning .
I have 3 of my partners books which i think are a bit general and i have some good ones of my own with my tools and smoker but i cant find them and need to search the loft .
I would like to join a local BKA and do a course and plan to make enquires.
thank ATB paul

 

[ericbeaumont]

poly but due to compatibility i am going for wood national

The Abelo 11-frame National poly box has an identical footprint to any wood National.

As for rectangular WBC boxes, you'll have to add a few strips of wood round the rims to size them to match square National 460mm boxes.