WBC vs National.....

[redpola]

Hi,

I recently bought a honey extractor from an experienced local beekeeper, which surely must prove I am an optimist (this is my first year keeping bees)!

Our local beekeepers only meet regularly in the Winter and so my exposure to beekeepers and their experience has largely been this forum and the guy I bought the bees from.

The lady I bought the extractor from was very chatty and we spoke at some length about bees and this and that. She shared some amusing "the queen was up my trouser leg" type stories and all was good.

But one thing she was insistent upon was that I should use WBC and not National. She backed this up with stats about heavy winter losses in Nationals vs zero losses in WBC hives.

I must confess that much of what I've heard / read of Beekeeping lore sometimes seems 50% people saying "this is the right thing / way, I've always done it this way" vs 50% people saying "No! THIS is the right way, I've always done it this way", so I was curious whether there really is something to what she said. She specifically said that WBC hives are better insulated for Winters.

Ignoring the cost of switching hives, should I be switching from my (two) nationals to WBC?

Cheers,

Neil.

 

[witchcraft]

I'm no expert (I'm on Nationals) but I think a WBC riser, just, fits over a National box anyway enabling you to have the best of both worlds.

 

[RoseCottage]

Neil,
Sit back and enjoy the ride...


WBC vs National and winter losses...

Winter losses can occur for many reasons:
Poor stores
Disease
Poor beekeeping preparations (siting in a poor location - happened to me nearly last winter)

I run only WBC hives as they are 'prettier'. Probably the deciding factor.
Yes they offer double wall insulation but that is not to say a National has insufficient insulation.
They are more inconvenient as you have to buy/make maintain a stack of outer lifts when others would not. Then there is the does it doesn't it fit fun each time you put them on.

However, they are more aesthetically pleasing to our eyes so we go with them as they fit our self image of beekeeping.

All the best,
Sam

 

[redpola]

I have read in more than one place that "Bees don't die of cold, they starve" during the winter, so I was a little confused about this lady's assertions. I was having an internal monologue thinking "Well maybe you didn't feed them enough so they died?".

That said, she was very experienced and "It has repeatedly worked for me" isn't less valid or useful than "here are the scientific reasons it should work".

As always, I keep an open mind and most importantly keep learning.

Neil.

 

[victor meldrew]

Hi Neil,
I have a WBC , nicely painted and on my front lawn
The wbc hive as provision for 10 frames only whereas the national has 11.
From a practical point of view the national is the way to go .
Most modern colonies are a little more prolific than in days of yore!
Remember each extra box requires an extra lift !.
I'm sticking with your question but be prepared for a whole host of suggestions for hives myriad .
VM

 

[For want of a better word]

I run both

The floors (I have OMF on both) on the WBCs do not allow for easy moving of hives to out apiary / heather / etc.... the WBCs are prettier but have lots more parts to store!

Some would say that bees are not fussed about type of hive they occupy.......
but I "collected" a swarm from a maisonette in a large city not far from here and tried to settle them into a very posh Classic 1930's Robert Lee WBC..... they would have none of it and moved themselves into a tatty old locally badly manufactured "plywood" National, that basically was no more than fit for burning!!

The Robert Lee WBC has totally different sizes of boxes etc to my modern WBCs

Pretty and classic or not so pretty and functional.... how about some of those PollyHives?..... I love to experiment... looking at a Langstroth size tree in the villiage to turn into a Natural monster let alone hive!!!
Good luck !

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Bees winter just fine on Nationals - otherwise they wouldnt be the most popular.

I had one of each wintering last year on a windy hillside with no discernible difference. It could also be argued that the WBC takes longer to warm up in the mornings and therefore the bees take longer to get going.

Choice between the two should simply come down to aesthetics, whether you need to move them regularly, and cost, but as Victor says there is one less frame in a WBC so if going down that route using a 14x12 size brood box is probably beneficial (yup, you'll need an extra lift)

 

[BBG]

Hi,


But one thing she was insistent upon was that I should use WBC and not National. She backed this up with stats about heavy winter losses in Nationals vs zero losses in WBC hives.

Cheers,

Neil.

We keep our gardening implements in old WBCs.

Buy MB polystyrene - use OMF correctly and have your bees happy and healthy.

 

[huntsman666]

I use National and had no losses last winter in spite of temperatures of -17C for days.

It's all about preparing them properly.

 

[redpola]

I use National and had no losses last winter in spite of temperatures of -17C for days.

It's all about preparing them properly.

Well this is pretty much what I expected the answer would be.

Thanks,

Neil.

 

[beeatshellards]

I use both nationals and wbc. The wbc hives were what I started out with, bees winter well in them ,as someone posted before double insulation, but I have nationals too . ask me the difference ? none whatsoever aesthetically I like the look of the wbc as I have a cottage garden, for the bees? .no difference whatsovever it is your preparation for getting the bees through the winter that matters, a good strong colony, plenty of stores etc not what hive they are in, ventilation is important too.

 

[Skyhook]

Same as all the rest. When I started I was going to go for WBC as that's what my father had. Researched it thoroughly and ended up with national. When I say national I've actually gone for 14 x 12 for more brood space, but that's a different argument (and a WBC has less space than a national).

I now have one WBC I'm re-furbishing for the garden as it's pretty; but not as practical as a national.

 

[warts]

I have one WBC and one national. Both on 14x12. Little between them when they emerged from winter as far as I could see. I have a spare nat and a spare WBC as back up, and have not bothered transferring my two resident hives to the same format, despite having the equipment, as I am pretty happy with that side of things. The only thing I have noticed, though may well be coincidental, is that there are always earwigs in the national (between crown board and roof), but seldom see any in the WBC. However, the hives are 100' apart, so not sure if that makes a difference.

 

[victor meldrew]

I run both

The floors (I have OMF on both) on the WBCs do not allow for easy moving of hives to out apiary / heather / etc.... the WBCs are prettier but have lots more parts to store!

Some would say that bees are not fussed about type of hive they occupy.......
but I "collected" a swarm from a maisonette in a large city not far from here and tried to settle them into a very posh Classic 1930's Robert Lee WBC..... they would have none of it and moved themselves into a tatty old locally badly manufactured "plywood" National, that basically was no more than fit for burning!!

The Robert Lee WBC has totally different sizes of boxes etc to my modern WBCs

Pretty and classic or not so pretty and functional.... how about some of those PollyHives?..... I love to experiment... looking at a Langstroth size tree in the villiage to turn into a Natural monster let alone hive!!!
Good luck !

Robert Lee and William Broughton C A R R are two different peeps ?

vm
Sorry about the gaps ,it's to fool the auto-censor software