VSH Bees

[wightbees]

Are those the virgin Queens?

 

[B+.]

Isn't that what LASI are doing? Also offering lots of queens for sale to the general public,

Is it? Who knows? They seem very shy about publishing their pedigrees.
All I could get out of them was that they were originally A.m.m.

As far as I'm aware, they're only claiming hygienic behavior (not VSH). If I've missed this, please provide a link as I'm very interested in these things.
I haven't seen any information on any other traits being tested either (just hygienic behavior).

 

[Anduril]

Isn't that what LASI are doing? Also offering lots of queens for sale to the general public,

Sounds more like Russian roulette to me. Selling Virgin queens to the beekeeping population and hoping they get mated with drones from VSH hives. Selling mated queens may have the same result, especially when it comes to the next generation. I think I would go for the Swindon bees, if they were available. Have LASI got isolated mating stations?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have LASI got isolated mating stations?

II queens available this year. No price yet

 

[Anduril]

Thanks for that. Lasts years feedback on here was not inspiring.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well, I'll see what my two I bought last year do

 

[Fusion_power]

I will also be looking at the fertility of mites but, until we have a larger VSH population, I don't think we're going to be able to undertake work like this.

This is one reason why it makes sense to cross with known high VSH bees to bring the traits into a target population. The information you have linked so far indicates that VSH traits are still in short supply in the Carnica breeding lines.

 

[wightbees]

Are there many using the Russian bee in the USA?

 

[Longinus Sdapeze]

All my colonies unseal the seal brood as by the VSH behaviour(I can not see wax moth marks) but in the same time they can not cope with varroa.In fact they show the "Parasitic mite syndrome" and unseal the brood as VSH bees but the mite levels remain very high and they can not survive with no treatment more then one winter.Also I have seen bees with a mite waggle dancing but they did not receive adequate help.
As I understand successful VSH behaviour and in general the hygienic behaviour are not the same after all.

 

[domino]

Well, I'll see what my two I bought last year do

Apart from the VSH stuff were they nice bees in general?

 

[B+.]

All my colonies unseal the seal brood as by the VSH behaviour(I can not see wax moth marks) but in the same time they can not cope with varroa.In fact they show the "Parasitic mite syndrome" and unseal the brood as VSH bees but the mite levels remain very high and they can not survive with no treatment more then one winter.Also I have seen bees with a mite waggle dancing but they did not receive adequate help.
As I understand successful VSH behaviour and in general the hygienic behaviour are not the same after all.

Yes. Hygiene and VSH are similar but not the same. I use high scoring hygiene behaviour as a pre-selection for VSH testing (only high scoring hygienic queens are selected for use in VSH testing).
It may be that they are uncapping the cells but not removing the pupa to get at the varroa mite inside. Also, is the mite reproducing or sterile? In VSH, the workers target reproducing mites

 

[Walrus]

Yesterday at the Cheshire BKA convention Prof Steve Martin gave us an update on latest research findings regarding bees vs varroa. A lot of work has gone on.

Apparently the DWV strain B is the main one in the UK whereas in USA it is strain A (the bad one).


Also, there are small groups of treatment free beekeepers dotted about and those doing well have much higher incidence of re-capping behaviour. This behaviour is almost non existent in bee populations that don’t have varroa (colonsay, Isle of Man, Australia) but in the treatment free populations it was up to something like 70%. They are looking for ways to quickly and easily identify re-capping because currently it’s really laborious.


My worry is that the take away from the talk will be for members, who mostly have 3 hives and are quite new, will decide that going treatment free is a great idea. I’m glad the research is ongoing but there’s no way I’m stopping treating my bees, especially if the number of treatment free beekeepers is set to rise.


Prof Martin said that he thinks there are more treatment free groups operating in the UK than elsewhere in Europe but they tend to keep their heads down.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Interesting
I won’t stop treating mine either though

Prof Martin said that he thinks there are more treatment free groups operating in the UK than elsewhere in Europe but they tend to keep their heads down.

Now is this because they get so much flak from some or because they are not putting their hands up to their losses?

 

[pargyle]

Interesting
I won’t stop treating mine either though




Now is this because they get so much flak from some or because they are not putting their hands up to their losses?

It's because you get branded as irresponsible and called 'let alone beekeepers' and you get sick of hearing people say you wouldn't leave fleas on a dog etc. There's much more to being treatment free than just not treating your bees... I would not recommend it to everyone but I've never treated my bees... my losses are no worse and in many cases much better than other beekeepers around me... my bees are mainly local mongrels and whilst they are not varroa free they appear to be managing the levels of varroa in the hives. I know a few others locally who are also treatment free and they too say much the same. If people were more understanding of a treatment free alternative perhaps you would see a few more heads above the parapet.

It's sometimes akin to admitting you are a member of some sort of secret society ... people's eyebrows raise and they trot out all the negatives ... it's not all bad news.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's because you get branded as irresponsible and called 'let alone beekeepers' .................. There's much more to being treatment free than just not treating your bees................... If people were more understanding of a treatment free alternative perhaps you would see a few more heads above the parapet

Exactly
If people understood that treatment free did not equate to “let alone”perhaps they wouldn’t be so judgemental
I know a local beekeeper who has never treated his bees but he does countless manipulations to remove mites.
Equally I know if at least two apiaries within range of my bees that are left entirely to their own devices and simply restocked periodically
Personally it’s too much work to keep that much on top varroa so I prefer to treat

 

[pargyle]

Exactly
If people understood that treatment free did not equate to “let alone”perhaps they wouldn’t be so judgemental
I know a local beekeeper who has never treated his bees but he does countless manipulations to remove mites.
Equally I know if at least two apiaries within range of my bees that are left entirely to their own devices and simply restocked periodically
Personally it’s too much work to keep that much on top varroa so I prefer to treat

I'm not in the least bit judgmental about people who treat their bees for varroa... as you rightly point out it's the easy and to some extent safe option. I see as much damage done to some bees by inept and ill informed beekeepers who actually over treat their colonies as there would be done by varroa... queen deaths, brood diseases and colonies that mysteriously 'die out'. - all blamed on varroa and then you discover they have been mixing treatments - leaving strips in the hive almost year round and drenching the poor little beggars with OA by waterfall on the coldest day of the year ... bad beekeeping is becoming endemic outside of this forum ... in all types of beekeepers...

 

[Beefriendly]

The Avignon feral bee colonies that survived without treatment showed that when some where treated for varroa, these hive produced nearly 3x as much honey as the untreated.

The question is how much damage and stress are non-treaters subjecting their colonies to by not treating them? Bees simply surviving with varroa does not necessarily equate to healthy colonies.
It would be educational if some non-treaters did treat a few of their colonies to see what difference it made.

 

[Swarm]

I take the approach that treatment is the best course for my bees, it was something thrust upon them so the least we can do is lessen the burden. That said, my bees always produce low numbers whenever mites are counted.

I like to mix up IPM and I will see how my plans for 2020 work out.

 

[Beesnaturally]

This is one reason why it makes sense to cross with known high VSH bees to bring the traits into a target population. The information you have linked so far indicates that VSH traits are still in short supply in the Carnica breeding lines.

My experience has been that collecting feral swarms, staying as clear as possible of other beekeepers, and running a live and let die operation with no help at all given to the colonies in respect of varroa, simply works. It's taken a few years but I now have a respectable treatment/mollycoddling-free strain. The one other trick is to let them raise as many drones as they like. The strongest raise the most, which is exactly what you want. Natural selection is an elegant marvel. All you have to do is stop getting in its way.