Some people should be banned from keeping bees

[user 20297]

Overthinking "we don't know the circumstances" can often lead to paralysis and numbness. Despite humanities best efforts they can only deal with the facts and on this forum we can only work with what we know, true or otherwise.

So you don't like mass murder what would you prefer:

massacre
Slaughter
extermination
Cleansing
mass destruction
butchering
annihilation
liquidation

All alternatives to mass murder and applied to both the human race and the animal kingdom.

"Dobbed" in......seems to apply to killing a queen and seems to be seen as a necessary evil....I've never done it.
Killing one bee seems to be acceptable. Without any reproach from the forum, beekeepers regularly say that they have dispatched annoying "follower" bees.
Some people seem to care less than I do when crushing bees replacing boxes.
At what population number does it become sinful to kill bees? And does motive play no part in our judgement?

 

[Hachi]

"Dobbed" in......seems to apply to killing a queen and seems to be seen as a necessary evil....I've never done it.
Killing one bee seems to be acceptable. Without any reproach from the forum, beekeepers regularly say that they have dispatched annoying "follower" bees.
Some people seem to care less than I do when crushing bees replacing boxes.
At what population number does it become sinful to kill bees? And does motive play no part in our judgement?

Society is bound by rules some legislative and some moral. So what, killing a QB because its her pheromones that are directly linked to hive behaviour including defensiveness is morally more acceptable than say, taking out the entire hive. For this kind of problem it is also the accepted doctrine and/or practice to deal with a nasty hive. The perception being that the individual is only killing, despatching, liquidating [choose your poison] a single entity rather than the collective for the survival and greater good of the collective. Not ideal, but the world is a far from ideal place. But euthanasia in my opinion is the last option not the first.

As we know, colonies can "turn on a sixpence" which should translate into decisions being made on all the facts not just its temperament and not the "go to" default position. Beeks [in an ideal world] should always have an apiary/site where they can remove these difficult hives to, so as to afford them time to plan their action(s) sort the problem and protect the general populace.

Personally, I accept that to inspect my colonies, it will result in the demise, albeit unintentional, of some of my bee's in the process. I'd rather it didn't but that's how it is and I try to limit the amount as I think we all do, or at least hope we all do.

 

[Boston Bees]

I keep bees in an urban situation, albeit behind high hedges/trees. Like most people I also don't have the luxury of a nice secluded out apiary I can shuffle a hive off to.

If I suddenly had a hive turn truly nasty, stinging our neighbours badly, and it persisted for more than a day (so wasn't triggered by some freak incident), I would kill the hive. Requeening takes far too long to cure the aggression in that circumstance. It has never happened, and may never do, but I would do it if it did.

 

[jeff33]

Well, now we have more information. Can you tell us what his wife said about this?

I am not sure why you got his wife involved in it, I have enough to deal with my own without caring about someone else's....you can extrapolate all you like about his private life and who wears the trousers though.

I have set-out what is what and not looking to extrapolate any further or turn this into a never ending philosophical threads on etics and what if. thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

I am not sure why you got his wife involved in it, I have enough to deal with my own without caring about someone else's....you can extrapolate all you like about his private life and who wears the trousers though.

I have set-out what is what and not looking to extrapolate any further or turn this into a never ending philosophical threads on etics and what if. thanks

Jeff. Don’t take it to heart. The inference is clear and I’m sure must of us know exactly what you meant.
Sometimes these threads become a philosophical soap box but that’s not your fault.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Jeff. Don’t take it to heart. The inference is clear and I’m sure must of us know exactly what you meant.
Sometimes these threads become a philosophical soap box but that’s not your fault.

I find it very odd that we can pass judgement on people when we know nothing at all about their circumstances. That was the point I was making with the man's (hypothetical) wife. I'm sure most people here understood that.

 

[Hachi]

I keep bees in an urban situation, albeit behind high hedges/trees. Like most people I also don't have the luxury of a nice secluded out apiary I can shuffle a hive off to.

If I suddenly had a hive turn truly nasty, stinging our neighbours badly, and it persisted for more than a day (so wasn't triggered by some freak incident), I would kill the hive. Requeening takes far too long to cure the aggression in that circumstance. It has never happened, and may never do, but I would do it if it did.

Given your situation you must be living on a constant knife edge with where your bees are located and good luck to you.

You do tho have more options at your disposal than an immediate death sentence without appeal eg;

Arrange for a friend to come and get them if their attitude changes, or
Speak to a friend to use a corner of a field or apiary to give you time to plan your next steps,
Speak to local clubs, most in these parts have an isolation apiary you might be able to use for a small contribution,
Get out there now and secure an out apiary and place an empty hive there. For a jar of honey a year its a good investment and will also act as a bait hive.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Given your situation you must be living on a constant knife edge with where your bees are located and good luck to you.

You do tho have more options at your disposal than an immediate death sentence without appeal eg;

Arrange for a friend to come and get them if their attitude changes, or
Speak to a friend to use a corner of a field or apiary to give you time to plan your next steps,
Speak to local clubs, most in these parts have an isolation apiary you might be able to use for a small contribution,
Get out there now and secure an out apiary and place an empty hive there. For a jar of honey a year its a good investment and will also act as a bait hive.

we should all have mitigation strategies

 

[Wilco]

One could also argue that hundreds of thousands of bees or more would have died this season alone, had he kept the hive going so he's actually reduced the number of deaths that occur as a result of his beekeeping.

( Just for the sake of being belligerent)

As I said before, I don't like the idea that it was done and think there are better ways but agree with @Beesnaturally that we don't know their full circumstances- a hand of friendship may be more welcome than we know. @jeff33 I'd be interested to hear if anything comes of your talk suggestion.

 

[jeff33]

I will keep you posted, the club has a monthly social gathering with presentations. Not sure I can make the June one but will try as it may be pointless doing it towards the end of the season.

I don't know how others are run across the UK but it is a shame ours don't have an improvement program in place, although the volunteers who run it probably give as much time as they can. We do have interesting presentations sometimes though.

I also see where Beenaturally is coming from but my point in my last message was that the more you extrapolate, the more it goes off the rails. I don't enjoy being stuck in front of my screen in an endless debate, that is all.

 

[Beesnaturally]

I also see where Beenaturally is coming from but my point in my last message was that the more you extrapolate, the more it goes off the rails. I don't enjoy being stuck in front of my screen in an endless debate, that is all.

You still don't get it Jeff, but never mind: others do.

BTW one of the better ways of avoiding 'endless debate' is to recognise and acknowledge a valid point early on. Its over straight away.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

Thanks for the support both

Count me in

 

[ericbeaumont]

His bees are stingy because he doesn't know what he's doing' strikes me as a leap in the dark

A competent beekeeper would act to improve colony temper out of consideration for the passing public, other beekeepers' virgins on mating flights, and the ease of managing his own colonies.