Varroa natural mite drop

[Stiffy]

Good to see forum back to normal..... now shall we discuss matchsticks, AMM, importing pesticides and 'Natural beekeeping'

S

 

[Dishmop]

Stiffy.

Is your avatar the Count of Monte Cristo?

 

[REDWOOD]

It can't be a coal miner there are none left, perhaps he should change it to a fracking engineer lol

 

[REDWOOD]

A sorry sight page 9

 

[Finman]

Fera, Managing Varroa, booklet 2010

There is a graph, where varroa population douples its size in 35 days.
Figure 11

There is a graph 12, that colony gest an extra pulse mites from outside origin.


in 3 months
- 100 mites will be 600 mites and
- 200 mites will be 1400 mites.

So you may measure safe figures, but later the number starts to gallop faster and faster towars harmfull levels.

And is your colony 6 frames or 24 frames or 50 frames?
1000 mites in boath cases. Small colony has equal 4000 mites.

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[Dishmop]

What about those mites that die, or fall off?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Given extreme positions the truth is ALWAYS in between

I'm going to do a literature search on this issue but VD is under huge evolutionary pressure and its lifecycle is short. Accept for now that the pressure on AM is little, and the lifecycle is much longer. The most virulent VD collapsed colonies and had to find new hosts where one of two things initially happened, treatment or collapse (for argument's sake). Not a successful evolutionary strategy so LESS virulent is favoured for a while. So it goes under the radar for a bit but that doesn't mean it's gone away or that treatment is not needed. Plus all insects have huge cycles; there are years when oak trees are leafless by June then not a moth the next year and it could just be that.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

To be clear above is re GB populations on premise that island has only been fully saturated with VD eg in terms of effect on feral populations in last few years.

 

[Finman]

What about those mites that die, or fall off?

are they called "casualties"

 

[REDWOOD]

I would love to think that one day there will be no more varroa mites but realistically that day will only come when there are no more bees

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Allegedly they wer found in wasp brood in Poland in 1988, although I am suspicious of that report but it's a nixe fanrasy...

 

[Dishmop]

are they called "casualties"

whatever you call them,
they are not there, so should not be included into the equation of mite population increase.
If 10 mites in a hive increase x 2 in a week, but 5 of the original mites die, then the total is 15 not 20. Next week 15 will increase to 30 but 10 will die and therefore there will be 20. etc etc.

Figures and stastisics can be manipilated to whatever you want the result to be.
Stastistics show that the safest place to ride a bicycle is on a motorway.

The "11 plus" education system was based on research that children from less well off families were not as bright as those from weathier familes. Many years later it was discovered that it was a theory..... no research was ever carried out.......It was just what somebody said.. Rather like the doctor who scared the **** out of parents when he said that autism was caused by the MMR vacination.
I see no point in reading research papers unless you are going to use that information as a basis for your own tests and experiments.
It is known that a break in the bee brood cycle will halt or eradicate mites from a hive..........but does anybody here use that method.

I have never seen thousands of mites running around when doing inspections.
I am not saying that there are none there but how many here have come across situations as shown in photos that can be found on google of bees covered in mites.
I can see very close up inside my observation hive and I have only once seen a mite on a bee. Now if research says that in one weeks time that there will be 2 mites and then 4 and then 8 etc etc., my observation hive should have more mites than bees, but at the moment I can see none and there is no mite drop thro the mesh in the bottom of the hive onto the white cardboard I use for collecting the rubbish. This might be because there was a brood break when I split the hive and let them make a new queen. She took a long time to start laying which I think was down to a change in the weather.

We are warned about cross contamination between hives and then we are told to take a frame of brood from one hive to put into another weaker hive.

I cant call it research but I (and others) have found out that bees dont die if you dont stuff all sorts of chemicals into the hive at certain times of the year.

I have also found out that if I leave my car unlocked for a week in my drive it didnt get stolen. It could have been, but then it might also have been stolen if I had locked it.

Millions of £'s are being spent every year on varroa research..........and the end result so far?????????? nothing, apart from chemical companies making a fortune selling anti varroa chemicals.
I can think of several companies that would be pretty pissed off if a cure was found for the common cold, and a few that might not be too happy about a method for the eradication of varroa.

If anybody wants to treat thier bees with anti varroa chemicals thats fine by me but how about actually finding out if there is a problem there before doing so and not just believe that there is, because you have read or been told that there must be.
New beeks cant wait to get thier kit on and start doing inspections so how about adding a big magnifying glass to your kit and spend some time looking closely at what is on the frames you cant wait to pull out.

 

[Stiffy]

It can't be a coal miner there are none left, perhaps he should change it to a fracking engineer lol

Could be, I often hear on sites I work on " look out here comes that fracking ecologist"
S

 

[mbc]

Could be, I often hear on sites I work on " look out here comes that fracking ecologist"
S

Lol.

 

[Finman]

whatever you call them,
they are not there, so should not be included into the equation of mite population increase.
If 10 mites in a hive increase x 2 in a week, but 5 of the original mites die, then the total is 15 not 20. Next week 15 will increase to 30 but 10 will die and therefore there will be 20. etc etc.

Figures and stastisics can be manipilated to whatever you want the result to be.
Stastistics show that the safest place to ride a bicycle is on a motorway. .

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I have never seen thousands of mites running around when doing inspections.
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No one has seen, because alive mites are not seen that way


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I am not saying that there are none there but how many here have come across situations as shown in photos that can be found on google of bees covered in mites. .

I have not seen bees covered with mites either, because it is impossible. But I have seen many bottom boards, which are covered + heap dead pupae, when bees have drawn them out. They uought to winter bees, but now theiu are one litre dead bodies.

Mostly you do not see them out, because birds and hedgehogs eate them in the morning.

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I can see very close up inside my observation hive and I have only once seen a mite on a bee.
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well, what we learn about it?

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Now if research says that in one weeks time that there will be 2 mites and then 4 and then 8 etc etc.,
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NO, no one has said so

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my observation hive should have more mites than bees, but at the moment I can see none and there is no mite drop thro the mesh in the bottom of the hive onto the white cardboard I use for collecting the rubbish. .

It seems that 200 university researchers and their assistent get money for nothing....
You at least do something. But if you are payd £ 3 000 a month, you surely start to see.
What do you think about mite researcher who have not met his researching object?

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This might be because there was a brood break when I split the hive and let them make a new queen. She took a long time to start laying which I think was down to a change in the weather.

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That makes me think . In my giant hives brood brake has been fatal, and it has killed several 7-box hives.



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Millions of £'s are being spent every year on varroa research..........and the end result so far??????????
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that makes me again thinking. .....40 years vain researching. .... bad,

But your report revieles that you will never get a job as mite researcher. You just don,t know, how to do it.... I mean, how to mind a mite.

This is usually recommended way

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[Dishmop]

Quote:

I have never seen thousands of mites running around when doing inspections.
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No one has seen, because alive mites are not seen that way

Well, I am glad about that then. Are the google pics fake then to make us panic that our hives are full of mites.

Quote:
I can see very close up inside my observation hive and I have only once seen a mite on a bee.
.
well, what we learn about it?

I was stating a fact. What you have learned is is that I have only ever seen one mite on a bee in my observation hive.


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Quote:
Now if research says that in one weeks time that there will be 2 mites and then 4 and then 8 etc etc.,
.
NO, no one has said so

Not exactly, but the example was related to your constant references to mites doubling in population over specific given periods of time.

It seems that 200 university researchers and their assistent get money for nothing....
You at least do something. But if you are payd £ 3 000 a month, you surely start to see.
What do you think about mite researcher who have not met his researching object?

and what researchers have discovered a way of eradicating varroa?

That makes me think . In my giant hives brood brake has been fatal, and it has killed several 7-box hives.

Dont use giant hives then.

But your report revieles that you will never get a job as mite researcher. You just don,t know, how to do it.... I mean, how to mind a mite.

as my hives are not infested with mites, I dint need to carry out such methods.

 

[pargyle]

If anybody wants to treat thier bees with anti varroa chemicals thats fine by me but how about actually finding out if there is a problem there before doing so and not just believe that there is, because you have read or been told that there must be.

New beeks cant wait to get thier kit on and start doing inspections so how about adding a big magnifying glass to your kit and spend some time looking closely at what is on the frames you cant wait to pull out.

You are bang on here (IMHO) - New beekeepers are actively encouraged to treat, without any evidence of infestation - almost to the point where they are told they HAVE to, as it is antisocial not to - I've lost count of the times I've heard "your omission will create a varroa ridden colony and infect everyone else's". Newbies should be encourage to use drone capping and jar tests as well as a drop test and then make an informed decision about whether or not to treat and what level of treatment is required.

I take digital photos of all my frames as I go through the hive and sit and look at them on my PC - you can blow them up to the point where you really can look very closely at the bees and the comb - DWV (not that I have any) would be instantly seen at high resolution on a PC Screen, I do accept that mites are not so easy to spot as they tend to be under the bee.

 

[greengumbo]

I think I've been strung between an argument.

For what its worth I agree with Finman (!!) that all or most colonies have Varroa and that if left alone it will eventually weaken and kill a hive although the timeframe is hugely variable and some may survive years. However I think the graphs showing massive doubling increases are maybe not always the norm...but thats semantics. Mix viruses into the equation and it gets even messier.

I would always treat my hives. MAQs this year. Thymol on a few nucs. Its up to the beekeeper though.

Dishmop - I had my obs hive out this morning - first bee I saw had a mite on it !!! Typical !

Chill everyone. It will be winter soon and we will have loads of time to argue

 

[Dishmop]

Dishmop - I had my obs hive out this morning - first bee I saw had a mite on it !!! Typical !

Mines always out.

Wife tells me off for spending too much time looking at it.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

This may seem entirely unrelated but bear with it and see what you feel.
I have been listening this week to the news items about a drip commonly used in hospitals to hydrate patients with dehydration issues. For years there have been arguments by those with doubts on its efficacy that it caused more deaths than saved lives. Their research results were rubbished by the establishment who preferred to believe the professor of medicine who published half a dozen papers and articles a year attended numerous conferences and purportedly carried out research showing the efficacy of this particular drip solution. Recently the Drip has been banned in Britain as it has been decided that the professor was making false research reports(he would not or could not supply the data)and so the research of the opponents of using the drip has been accepted.
The doctor who discovered the cause of many ulcers of the digestive system was not believed for over ten years( he was young and not part of the establishment) I am glad that eventually he was believed. We owe our modern treatment of ulcers to his research.
Antibiotics were a fantastic discovery but they have their drawbacks, as we are currently finding when bacteria mutate.
The point I am trying to make is that research is skewed it is not perfect and new discoveries are not a cure all, they are sometimes hailed as a miracle when they should be adopted with caution. Observation of anything begins with individuals noticing certain effects and theorising and looking for its cause. research is merely a continuation and possibly widening out of that. Sometimes people with vested interests will deliberately falsify evidence. Drug companies rarely publish the evidence for a product that is not favourable. Why would they ?