Varroa natural mite drop

[Dishmop]

in August 2013 some 2-hive owners in Beekeeping Forum thought that they renew everything at the issue of Varroa destructor. That revolution group was not very lucky because most of their members had dyslexia or their basic knowledge was miserable to understand words or figures in conversation.

This is the kind of stupid narrow minded answer one comes to expect from Finman,

He's read about it, and he's an expert. Anybody else with a few thoughts on the subject is stupid.

WE understand perfectly the facts and figures.
The problem is that YOU dont understand what WE are saying, either because you are not able to understand English properly or because it suits you not to want to understand.

After 40 years of knowing all about varroa, what thoughts have you given to trying to do something about it? What has all your reading acheived? All you can say is that if we dont treat then bees will die, and thats not really correct. I ask you why mine havent died and you post a video of something stupid like a football riot, or some idiot singing. Very informative.

 

[pargyle]

Not sure about the point of it to be honest. If you have a problem after doing your checks then treat. Not sure what all the speculation is about.

The OP was a comment that there seemed to be little, or at least, less varroa about this year ... it degenerated into the usual fracas between Finman and his strident views and those who don't accept them !

There's at least 10 similar threads if you look back into the archives and there will probably be more in the future ...

It can get a bit monotonous !

 

[Jeff Buzz]

I treat my dog for worms as recommended by my vet.

Quote from RSPCA Website

Healthy looking animals can carry worms, so it’s important to worm pets regularly.

Many infected animals do not show any outward signs, so it’s important to have a worm control programme in place as advised by your vet

Worms can cause suffering, illness and even death.

A bit like varroa really other than its considered responsible care for you pet when used in the context of a dog.

Why risk the suffering to your colonies of bees when expert advice says treat them.

I would guess most professional beekeepers have a treatment program in place.

I would guess Hivemaker treats his and he has probably forgotten more about beekeeping than I will ever know.

 

[pargyle]

Disease issues do not go that way that, we have a consensus, do we or not we. If most do, I do

If you are sick, it has nothing to do with other people how you must take care yourself.

.

You missed the point Finman ...

It SEEMS, from a few posts, that there is less Varroa present in some hives, in the UK, this year. It would be interesting to determine (on a bigger statistical sample) whether or not this is a more general situation or whether it is just isolated colonies that appear to be less infested.

I really don't think this is a thread about whether or not to treat - that's a completely separate issue - it's whether there are LESS VARROA about this year.

If there are ... and it can be statistically verified ... then we can start discussing WHY ? Far more productive than your continous monologue berating everyone who even thinks about questioning what you do.

 

[Finman]

I
I lost two hives due to both being weak going into winter and being in a very exposed site (so all my fault) but 15 survived and grew at a amazing rate due mainly I would say because of the advice I took from Finman in giving them loads of room, letting the queen go and fill the boxes without queen excluders.

Has it worked I think so last weekend my honey take just topped 2000 lb and my bees all look happy.

if I were your bee, I would be very very unhappy. You stoled 1000 kg honey from us! Is it 70 kg/hive!.

Sounds great in your environment. Reason to good yield is first of all good pastures.
Then second thing is that hives have abilyty to take in the nectar flown when it happens.

Nice to hear something like that!

.

 

[Finman]

You missed the point Finman ...

It SEEMS, from a few posts, that there is less Varroa present in some hives, in the UK, this year. .

I have not missed any points, because they are your hives in UK. Not mine.

Hives have allways different amount of mites, and don't nurse them according what is mite drop.

You just kill them and you need not take care how much you and and did others more or less.

Mites are allways too much. and i never count mites. I countonly dead hives and reducec clusters.

Yes, I miss more points than you can quess...the age....and sleeping aphnea.

.

 

[pargyle]

I treat my dog for worms as recommended by my vet.

Quote from RSPCA Website

Healthy looking animals can carry worms, so it’s important to worm pets regularly.

Many infected animals do not show any outward signs, so it’s important to have a worm control programme in place as advised by your vet

Worms can cause suffering, illness and even death.

QUOTE]

Did you get you dog vaccinated as a puppy ? Do you then have the boosters EVERY year as is/was recommended by some vets ? It was the opinion of some vets that yearly, prophylactic, boosters were actually detrimental to dog's health - removing their in-built ability to combat disease and actually causing health problems (Eczema and other complaints). Current veterinary training is moving away from annual boosters which just put more money into the treatment suppliers pockets. See this and think again ...

http://www.dfordog.co.uk/article-dog-vaccination-boosters.html

Worming dogs, regardless of whether they need it is a similarly futile and unnecessary treatment, watch their poo ... and their weight and their eating habits, you will soon tell, if you know your dogs, whether they have a serious worm infestation. But better still prevent them from getting worms in the first place: This works ...

http://voices.yahoo.com/all-natural-remedies-dogs-worm-problem-322689.html

And there are natural remedies for worms that don't require chemical treatments.

Same with fleas and ticks ... do you treat your dogs for these when they don't have any ?

Your analogy just falls flat on its face if you think about it. And that's always the answer. One should THINK about things rather than blindly following the 'that's what we've always done' philosophy. Same for our bees ....

 

[Jeff Buzz]

if I were your bee, I would be very very unhappy. You stoled 1000 kg honey from us! Is it 70 kg/hive!.

Sounds great in your environment. Reason to good yield is first of all good pastures.
Then second thing is that hives have abilyty to take in the nectar flown when it happens.

Nice to hear something like that!

.

Hi Finman

I probably have more than 15 hives at the moment perhaps double this. But I think number one is to have lots and lots of health bees and get big hives in the right places.

 

[Finman]

Hi Finman

But I think number one is to have lots and lots of health bees and get big hives in the right places.

That is the main point. It makes good feeling, when it goes, - not perfectly- but so that dogs do not piss onto legs.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I have not missed any points, because they are your hives in UK. Not mine.

Hives have allways different amount of mites, and don't nurse them according what is mite drop.

You just kill them and you need not take care how much you and and did others more or less.

Mites are allways too much. and i never count mites. I countonly dead hives and reducec clusters.

Yes, I miss more points than you can quess...the age....and sleeping aphnea.

.

Sometimes, Pargyle, it's easier to fall flat on your face than lean over too far backwards! If you manage to translate the above response to your elegant summary of this thread, let me know!
There's an Arab proverb that goes He who would wash an ass's head wastes both his soap and his time. Do you sometimes get the same feeling when posting on this forum?

CVB

 

[pargyle]

Sometimes, Pargyle, it's easier to fall flat on your face than lean over too far backwards! If you manage to translate the above response to your elegant summary of this thread, let me know!
There's an Arab proverb that goes He who would wash an ass's head wastes both his soap and his time. Do you sometimes get the same feeling when posting on this forum?

CVB

Yep ... only explanation is elsewhere ... He's got a septic leg and he's on antibiotics so I'll have to give him the benefit of the doubt tonight !!

 

[Jeff Buzz]

Sometimes, Pargyle, it's easier to fall flat on your face than lean over too far backwards! If you manage to translate the above response to your elegant summary of this thread, let me know!
There's an Arab proverb that goes He who would wash an ass's head wastes both his soap and his time. Do you sometimes get the same feeling when posting on this forum?

CVB

I think what Finman is saying is that any amount of mites is not a good thing and have the potential to wipe your bees out. What is the point counting them they will be there for sure.

 

[Finman]

I think what Finman is saying is that any amount of mites is not a good thing and have the potential to wipe your bees out. What is the point counting them they will be there for sure.

That is exactly what I want to say....

.

Hive may have situation that it has no mites.

Next week drones have moved there perhaps 20 mites. Who knows.... Drones move freely from hive to hive and carry mites on their body. Sometimes I have seen how full they are mites when they come out for mating flights.

How do you explain that in my country mite spreaded 50 km a year from Russian border to West.
Totally clean hives got it.

Russian beekeepers warned about 1975 that mite is coming to Finland. When Finnish beekeeper start to think, how to make a beehive zone near border. During thinking first hives allready died near border.
Folks moved to safe their hives quickly and so it spreaded first 200 km with those safety movements.



Think- clean hive got mites? - How it is possible.
Why it cannot happen in this summer in UK, even if you hive is 100% clean?

.Those calculations are stupid things when you know that they are there.

UK is contaminated with mites. Who heck can think that his hive does not get them. It needs a good imagination.

.

 

[beeno]

Well said, Pargyle, well said. Only one person reported severe infestations, most contributors reported surprisingly low numbers on the Inspection Trays but the reporting method may not make these results statistically significant. The use of counts of Varroa from inspection trays was called into question. Nevertheless, it is still an approved monitoring system, according to FERA's Managing Varroa.

So, instead of you experienced beeks ripping into each other, why not have a go at explaining what's going on - why the reported low numbers of mites on inspection trays at this stage of the season - are these low numbers replicated on Drone-brood uncapping samples - are ants removing mites from the trays before the beeks do their count (which would, I suspect, invalidate the "Tray count" method) - so many questions, so few answers...

CVB

Thank you, thank you, thank you for trying to save this forum.

 

[Finman]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for trying to save this forum.

Good question!

How to treat mites from this forum. They are easily counted but...

3,830 views in this chain. Not bad in 5 days.

Best seller stand up comics..

.

 

[pargyle]

Good question!

How to treat mites from this forum. They are easily counted but...

3,830 views in this chain. Not bad in 5 days.

Best seller stand up comics..

.

I think the number of views shows just how interested people are about why there 'appears' to be less varroa mites in some hives this year. The reasons, if this IS reflected on a national basis ... well you can perm any one of about 50 possible explanations - or even several of them. It will be impossible to say.

There will be those who state that the colony losses over the winter and the resultant brood breaks have reduced the overall population of mites and those who will state that the treatments being used now have been successful ... and then there will be those who feel that our bees may just be getting more able to resist VD naturally.

A thread that could challenge 'what did you do in the Apiary today' for it's ability to run I would think....

 

[Finman]

.. well you can perm any one of about 50 possible explanations - or even several of them. It will be impossible to say.
..

our mite advices in Finland are 2 pages.

We have job to do. We kick up the colonies, harvest honey yield, ectract it, and sell the honey.

At same time Great Britain makes a great drama from mite counting and gets 50 versions.

Then they wake up: bees are disappearing!
Those who have bees: "I have honey in my hive! What do I do now!"

well well....I ment great.

 

[Jeff Buzz]

If there is a low mite count at the moment would this not be the very best time to treat your hive??? Why wait until they have built up to a damaging level when it may not be the best time to treat them or after they have done irreparable damage to your bees.

We have a very short window in which to apply this part of a integrated pest management system and there is no sure way of determining the varroa load now or any way of knowing what it could be going into winter so why not take this opportunity perhaps especially as you may have a low mite count to really give varroa a good kicking???

But what do I know..

 

[madasafish]

For the past four years I have treated all my colonies- HM recipe for Varroa and for nosema in last August. No oxalic . No IPM. Period.

After year 2 my mite counts fell to low levels in 2012 - tens per hive -during treatment. In 2013 my weekly drops were non existent (like nil) in all but one hive. As in prior years I treated as above. The resultant mite counts during treatment were 30 in the one hive with a drop and nil on all the others. (I have 9 hives).

Our Association apiary has some 14 hives - mite counts are also very low. We are currently treating with MAQs so i'll know the post treat counts in the next fortnight.


I postulate that the prolonged and cold spring with occasional warm spells switched brood rearing on and off and disrupted mite rearing. Rather like brood breaks do as an accepted form of control - see http://www.mdasplitter.com/

 

[Headnavigator]

For the past four years I have treated all my colonies- HM recipe for Varroa and for nosema in last August. No oxalic . No IPM. Period.

After year 2 my mite counts fell to low levels in 2012 - tens per hive -during treatment. In 2013 my weekly drops were non existent (like nil) in all but one hive. As in prior years I treated as above.

Ditto, have used nothing but HM recipe for three years, but that doesn't explain why a swarm that moved into my bait hive has a similar absence of varroa. A bee farmer friend commented on the absence of varroa well back in the season.

Would love to think that our concentrated efforts are beating the mite but that's far too simple. I reserve judgement on the cause and continue to count my blessings as well as my mites!