Vanishing bees, varroa biggest reason 2016

[Michael Palmer]

Wasn't there another heat method to kill varroa if I remember right it does work in principle.

I know a beekeepers here in Vermont that built a heat treatment machine. Don't really know what else to call it. It looked a but like a rock tumbler with a large screened canister and a heating system. In winter, the colony was dumped into the turning screen canister and heated up. The mites dropped from the bees and fell through the tumbling screen. The bees were dumped back into the hive.

I haven't heard him talk about his machine in quite a number of years.
No doubt.

 

[Finman]

Don't let that put you off - try 3 doses of VOA 5 days apart. I had one colony with DWV 'on it's knees' last year in mid-season, and zapped them with 4 doses of VOA, 4 days apart, just to be sure - as belt & braces. Colony survived and has just over-wintered ok (so far, touch wood).
LJ

Sounds like human food production process

.
Last summer I took all brood away from a hive, which clearly seemed that varroa will kill it in a month.
The hive had then 2 box shook swarm, which I trickled then. After a week the hive had 6 frames healty brood. From that colony I got a good wintering hive.

Those varroa brood frames ( 8 pieces) I put into a box, which I brought to my home yard. The brood frames emerged and I had one box full of bees. I treated them with oxalic. After 2 weeks the hive had only handfull of bees and the queen. Typical vanishing happened.

Next summer I will build to my all hives 3-frame cage systems, where the queen has only 3 frames to lay during July in main flow. When flow is over, I take brood frames off, treat the bees with oxalic. I give a laying queen and it starts to make winterbees. That is according COLOSS project recipe.

I do not want to spend my half summer married with mites. That was not the meaning of my hobby, gasifying hives every 5 th day, cooking glycerine strips, making formic acid pads, counting mites, dusting bees with icing sugar, counting sex alleles..

I do not either want that beekeeping is some post mortem happening, where two hive owners give their advices to me after all these years.

.
Coloss system http://www.coloss.org/taskforces/varroacontrol/seasonal-brood-interruption-study-2016 .
It has a little bit to do with those cages, but then they are ready.
.

 

[Eyeman]

Next summer I will build to my all hives 3-frame cage systems, where the queen has only 3 frames to lay during July in main flow. When flow is over, I take brood frames off, treat the bees with oxalic. I give a laying queen and it starts to make winterbees. That is according COLOSS project recipe.

Thanks for the posting.
Your 3-frame cage system isn't one of the options mentioned in the trial.
Why don't you use the 1-frame foundation for 21 days option?

 

[Finman]

Thanks for the posting.
Your 3-frame cage system isn't one of the options mentioned in the trial.
Why don't you use the 1-frame foundation for 21 days option?

I do not know why. The Queen has a little bit more space to lay. I have kept whole summers mated queens in 3-frame nucs. But one frame nuc is odd. But I could try, does it make any difference.


As well the nuc combs can be old black combs, which I then destroy with brood.

 

[Little John]

I do not want to spend my half summer married with mites. That was not the meaning of my hobby, gasifying hives every 5 th day, cooking glycerine strips, making formic acid pads, counting mites, dusting bees with icing sugar, counting sex alleles..

I don't know where that text came from - but if that person doesn't want to deal with a problem which can kill their bees - then perhaps they should give up beekeeping, and take up another hobby.

No-one in their right mind wants to do these things - but some action is necessary until such time as a more permanent solution can be found. My view is to keep such action as simple as possible: all I do (usually) is apply VOA once a year - that takes around one day when nothing much else is happening - hardly a major exercise. Nothing else - no fannying around counting anything, or making-up anything - just one hit, once a year, then walk away.

The VOA multi-dose I described was one single exception to the above. With the number of colonies here, I can afford to lose one (or even ten) and not be troubled by such loss. But it would be a much different story if I only had a couple. So - I thought it would be worthwhile to try multi-dosing, and pass-on that info to others. Conclusion - it's a good method - not for all colonies, all of the time - but if you really need to save a colony from destruction, then it's one effective method. I can say that with some confidence, 'cause I've actually done it myself.
LJ

 

[Finman]

.
Oh dear Little John....

I have had varroa since year 1982. Never needed advices from British beekeepers... I have been here teaching .
.
All these advices from do nothing to vape every fouth day.... When ever....

 

[Hunajavelho]

I do not want to spend my half summer married with mites. That was not the meaning of my hobby, gasifying hives every 5 th day, cooking glycerine strips, making formic acid pads, counting mites, dusting bees with icing sugar, counting sex alleles..

.

Previously you have stated that varroa is not a big problem and easy to treat.
And now you sound like you want to go treatment free

 

[Finman]

Previously you have stated that varroa is not a big problem and easy to treat.
And now you sound like you want to go treatment free

Did I? I can change my mind. Can I?

(it must be language barrier somewhere)

Previously... What heck my smarthone has went to write now?

 

[For want of a better word]

Did I? I can change my mind. Can I?

(it must be language barrier somewhere)

Every day with your socks

Mytten da

 

[mazzamazda]

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately we are having 100mph winds and driving rain at the moment so really all I can do short term is treat. We are also talking about 20 hives with wall to wall brood so it's a tough call. One thing is for sure I'm moving them all asap.

Could you shook swarm the bees then oxalic vape to give the mites a big hit ? Use the flow to get the new frames drawn . I know you are not in the uk and the season is not the same . Good luck anyhow .

 

[fatshark]

One thing is for sure I'm moving them all asap.

I suspect the beekeepers in the area you move them to won't be too pleased with that ... surely better to treat then move?

 

[mazzamazda]

Don't let that put you off - try 3 doses of VOA 5 days apart. I had one colony with DWV 'on it's knees' last year in mid-season, and zapped them with 4 doses of VOA, 4 days apart, just to be sure - as belt & braces. Colony survived and has just over-wintered ok (so far, touch wood).
LJ

Thanks, I think some are past that. The story goes.... I took the car back to the uk around a month ago with 4 nucs from this apiary, they are modified paynes 12x14 with 8 frames full of brood and so much stores I could barely lift them. I picked 4 very strong hives with some dwv. Treated with varrox in PT, and a further 3 times in the uk. I came back here last Friday with the bee inspector checking nucs in the uk last Monday. I did find one nuc was a little light and warned him there was some varroa damage. His comments were astonishing, he wondered if they were going to survive, little stores and abandoned brood.

All this in less than 21 days.

 

[mazzamazda]

I suspect the beekeepers in the area you move them to won't be too pleased with that ... surely better to treat then move?

Yes I meant sort them first. I'll still be lucky to get them out alive anyway.
The illegal beekeepers around me don't bother with varroa or fb and are probably the cause.

 

[Finman]

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately we are having 100mph winds and driving rain at the moment so really all I can do short term is treat. We are also talking about 20 hives with wall to wall brood so it's a tough call. One thing is for sure I'm moving them all asap.

There are much alternations, and you seems to know enough about mites. Only what you need now is a miracle.

But flow is going, mites are getting worse. You cannot ruin your yield with what ever system, like formic acid..

Rain is good thing, I suppose.... to vegetation.

You have allready tried some stuff, but they do not stop mites....

Mite does not kill when colony is growing. It kills big hives when bee number is going down of brooding, and mites are going up. More and more of bees are violated. But if the load is big enough, the colony collapses. And we say, that bees vanished.


What you could do now is icing sugar test, how bad the mite thing really is.
And you know that mites dublicate in one month.
3 % = 3 mites/ 100 bees is a limit.......... but after a month it is 6 mites and it is urgent then.

Does brood need to be killed before a beekeepers acts?


Shake bees with dust sugar, and count how much mites drop.

If bees are full of honey, you can count that 1000 bees are 150-170 g

If bees are normally thing, 1000 bees are 120 g.

10 bees 1.2 g.
.



.

 

[Finman]

tupla

 

[Finman]

.
If the hive has this time of year 10 mites, in September it has 1300 mites.

If it has now 100 mites, in September it has 13 000 mites, and it is dead.
In June figure is 1600 mites.

 

[farmerboy5470]

Thanks, I think some are past that. The story goes.... I took the car back to the uk around a month ago with 4 nucs from this apiary, they are modified paynes 12x14 with 8 frames full of brood and so much stores I could barely lift them. I picked 4 very strong hives with some dwv. Treated with varrox in PT, and a further 3 times in the uk. I came back here last Friday with the bee inspector checking nucs in the uk last Monday. I did find one nuc was a little light and warned him there was some varroa damage. His comments were astonishing, he wondered if they were going to survive, little stores and abandoned brood.

All this in less than 21 days.

Unfortunately I'm in the group of having a real struggle to keep mite numbers down. We haven't had a brood break in 24 months and some colonies have collapsed in an area where other beekeepers are. I normally use amitraz but that's not effective anymore. Currently using a mix of thymol and formic acid out of desperation. We have had a flow for the last 6 weeks which sounds great, it's more trouble. On the plus side I've had 3 queens mated in December, crazy!

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately we are having 100mph winds and driving rain at the moment so really all I can do short term is treat. We are also talking about 20 hives with wall to wall brood so it's a tough call. One thing is for sure I'm moving them all asap.

Yes I meant sort them first. I'll still be lucky to get them out alive anyway.
The illegal beekeepers around me don't bother with varroa or fb and are probably the cause.

And you are bringing these from that area into the UK, no wonder there is so many people against imports

 

[mazzamazda]

And you are bringing these from that area into the UK, no wonder there is so many people against imports

Have you not read the posts? Is there no varroa in the uk?

 

[mazzamazda]

There are much alternations, and you seems to know enough about mites. Only what you need now is a miracle.

But flow is going, mites are getting worse. You cannot ruin your yield with what ever system, like formic acid..

Rain is good thing, I suppose.... to vegetation.

You have allready tried some stuff, but they do not stop mites....

Mite does not kill when colony is growing. It kills big hives when bee number is going down of brooding, and mites are going up. More and more of bees are violated. But if the load is big enough, the colony collapses. And we say, that bees vanished.


What you could do now is icing sugar test, how bad the mite thing really is.
And you know that mites dublicate in one month.
3 % = 3 mites/ 100 bees is a limit.......... but after a month it is 6 mites and it is urgent then.

Does brood need to be killed before a beekeepers acts?


Shake bees with dust sugar, and count how much mites drop.

If bees are full of honey, you can count that 1000 bees are 150-170 g

If bees are normally thing, 1000 bees are 120 g.

10 bees 1.2 g.
.



.

Thank you, problem is I'm back in the U.K. From 6th-20th so I won't be able to do much, weather improves here on 8th, typical.

 

[farmerboy5470]

Have you not read the posts? Is there no varroa in the uk?

Yes, hence the comment.