The law and bee keeping , the use of agricultural land for bees

[jenkinsbrynmair]

get some pigs on the plot

 

[BoothBees]

get some pigs on the plot

I recently did a planning app, and made a comment that if I couldn't keep 2 horses on half of it, I may have to put 50 pigs on instead. Whether that helped sway it I don't know, but I got the planning!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

get some pigs on the plot

Or sheep/goats. Nothing to beat persistent bleating, goats bleats carry quite some distance and you can enjoy the milk they produce. Just don't expect a living hedge to stay living for long. Goats strip bark as a delicacy.

 

[Bumbling Keeper]

Are we talking planning enforcement here? How big is the area you've fenced off? I think the neighbour is concerned that after 7(? can't remember the exact number) number of years the land will be deemed as a garden/developed land. It is then very very hard to stop a house being built on garden land in the countryside.

Enforcement only enforce if they think it is in the public's interest to do so. You could apply for planning permission, I can't see how it could possibly be turned down. Get some free pre application advice first from the council. Get support from the local parish council.

Someone must have complained. What is the wider setting beyond the paddock? As Darryl states, planning enforcement would only take action if it's in the public interest - that is, they'd only go to court to enforce if it were in the public interest. Is there anything in the local plan regarding land use and bees? Bees are considered 'live stock'. We have hives on agricultural land all over the country. Are they trying to set a new precedent? I would initially speak to the planning officer.

 

[Bumbling Keeper]

Of course it's not the planning dept who make the final decision (unless delegated) it's the planning committee of elected councillors. Have a word with the local councillor(s), who might have more common sense.

councillors... MORE common sense? Not in my experience!

 

[Lemony]

That's interesting. Planners are hot on agricultural land being used as garden, thus extending the curtilage of the property. That is 'development', change of use' in planning terms.
I'm not sure if it comes under the '4 year rule', or the '10 year rule', but you would have to prove it had been used that way for the right length of time in order to obtain a certificate of legal development.
It is possible recreational equestrian use could be used, though that might be specific to that use.
If this is what is happening it all needs rethinking from the ground up. Again, a written response should clarify the nature of the problem, and if it doesn't write to ask for further clarification.

I’m on this at the moment hopefully a form but fair letter will put things in perspective
Any suggestions on what to put in it?

 

[Lemony]

If you mow the area immediately around your house (what we traditionally think of as a garden) and then push/drive your lawnmower around the remaining 3 acres (and you do this every week) then what is the difference? You have extended your garden into the 3 acres. Because of the NPPF (you are not in a built up area) your garden is now a brown field site. Planning policy encourages building on brown field sites.

Even if you are not a regular mower, if the 3 acres is planted or used in such a way that it clearly belongs to your house then it could still be classified as a brownfield site.

Different councils have different views on this. Here in Cornwall the council are building mad, and it is my experience that they are happy for gardens to be extended, particularly if the former use was equestrian.

 

Thank you
The paddock was resowm by my new neighbours as it was full of ragwort and rabbit holes. Cannot use it for horses for two years to let roots develop
So mowing recommended to strengthen grass

Fruit trees planted close to house and grass left longer

 

[Lemony]

or the power of the brown envelope

I agree
If there is no policy they can send me it opens it up to corruption

 

[Lemony]

Re-reading this, so the issue is the whole paddock and the bees have been the tipping point.

I'm with the objecting neighbour on this. I hate bloody lawnmowers.

Interesting point of view Button thank you

 

[Beesnaturally]

I’m on this at the moment hopefully a form but fair letter will put things in perspective
Any suggestions on what to put in it?

Have you had anything in writing from them yet? Have you asked for their thinking in writing? You need to see where they are coming from.

Its quite likely you can just carry on, the chap who complained will be told they've had a word with you, and probably you are not doing anything they can interfere with, and it will all just go quiet.

But you need clarity, so I'd chase them very simply, asking for something in writing but saying nothing else.

Never forget it is a BIG offence in law to interfere with a person's right to go about their legal business... and 'business' means anything they choose to be doing, not just commercial activity. This applies to planners as much as anyone

Do let us know, many here will be interested in knowing the outcome of this.

 

[Lemony]

Just the enforcement notice saying changing agricultural land to domestic
Phone call lead to them saying bees are recreational so domestic unless producing enough honey to supply supermarkets!
He is coming out at some point

 

[SWEET]

Place them on a trailer, make them mobile (or caravan).

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do let us know, many here will be interested in knowing the outcome of this.

This has been the most exciting thread on here for ages. By far eclipsing another promising one which has fizzled out

 

[Lemony]

Have you had anything in writing from them yet? Have you asked for their thinking in writing? You need to see where they are coming from.

Its quite likely you can just carry on, the chap who complained will be told they've had a word with you, and probably you are not doing anything they can interfere with, and it will all just go quiet.

But you need clarity, so I'd chase them very simply, asking for something in writing but saying nothing else.

Never forget it is a BIG offence in law to interfere with a person's right to go about their legal business... and 'business' means anything they choose to be doing, not just commercial activity. This applies to planners as much as anyone

Do let us know, many here will be interested in knowing the outcome of this.

Thank you for your help
I will keep you updated

 

[Beesnaturally]

Place them on a trailer, make them mobile (or caravan).

Its a good idea (it makes them moveable 'chattels'!) but you've have to tell them you can only move the chattel/s 2 or 3 feet a day!

 

[Beesnaturally]

Just the enforcement notice saying changing agricultural land to domestic
Phone call lead to them saying bees are recreational so domestic unless producing enough honey to supply supermarkets!
He is coming out at some point

They are wrong: bees are livestock whether you sell any product or not, and thus agricultural. You can do agriculture anywhere as I've shown, so there is no change of use. Again, it might be worth joining the BBKA to see what help they can offer in the legals dept.

It might be helpful to point out that you plan to keep sheep in the field in the near future, and so the fence is needed to stop them knocking hives over.

Keeping sheep is more recognisably agricultural I think, even if they are only used for land management.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Just the enforcement notice saying changing agricultural land to domestic
Phone call lead to them saying bees are recreational so domestic unless producing enough honey to supply supermarkets!
He is coming out at some point

Putting a few beehives on a piece of land does not make it a garden. There are a hundred beekeepers on this forum who have bees on land and the land doesn't suddenly become someone back garden by default. That's just crackers.

Putting a couple of hollow logs on the land (log gum) which bees could potentially swarm into does not make it a garden either.

An apiary is an apiary - I have several sites and I move bees from one to the other as required - home, field, office, whatever. My bees produce somewhere between 500 and 1000 kg per year which is not enough for a supermarket but enough to supply a few shops. However not all colonies are at one apiary - it's best to spread the bees around, so the planning officer has no way of knowing how many colonies you have. In any case, two hives could easily produce 100kg of honey per year which is definitely more than a hobby if you consider of how to dispose of the stuff once extracted.

The enforcement notice prohibiting the change in agricultural land to domestic is fine - as you don't want to change the use to domestic any more than he does, presumably, so you and the council officer both agree! Excellent. Therefore between you, you need to find a mechanism where a compromise can be found.

 

[buffon]

They are wrong: bees are livestock whether you sell any or not,

That is irrelevant though especially since there is a question mark about what the remaining paddock is being classed as. I grow vegetables in my garden, but that doesn't make it an agricultural field. Lemony says fruit trees have been planted, which are found in both agricultural orchards and gardens. A judgement call has to be made about what the land is, scale will come into play, but it is hard to write down hard and fast rules.

If the ultimate goal is to put horses on there then that will need planning permission anyway (if you will be bringing hay to feed them).

 

[Anduril]

I knew of one beekeeper only having one hive in a farmers field, it didn't make it a garden.

 

[buffon]

Putting a few beehives on a piece of land does not make it a garden.

It could though if the rest of the land is effectively being used as a garden.

The enforcement notice prohibiting the change in agricultural land to domestic is fine - as you don't want to change the use to domestic any more than he does

But lemony isn't setting up an agricultural business. It is clearly a hobby for them. In the opening post:

I may have to abandon my dream of having bees