- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 37,396
- Reaction score
- 17,773
- Location
- Glanaman,Carmarthenshire,Wales
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- Too many - but not nearly enough
get some pigs on the plot
I recently did a planning app, and made a comment that if I couldn't keep 2 horses on half of it, I may have to put 50 pigs on instead. Whether that helped sway it I don't know, but I got the planning!get some pigs on the plot
Or sheep/goats. Nothing to beat persistent bleating, goats bleats carry quite some distance and you can enjoy the milk they produce. Just don't expect a living hedge to stay living for long. Goats strip bark as a delicacy.get some pigs on the plot
Someone must have complained. What is the wider setting beyond the paddock? As Darryl states, planning enforcement would only take action if it's in the public interest - that is, they'd only go to court to enforce if it were in the public interest. Is there anything in the local plan regarding land use and bees? Bees are considered 'live stock'. We have hives on agricultural land all over the country. Are they trying to set a new precedent? I would initially speak to the planning officer.Are we talking planning enforcement here? How big is the area you've fenced off? I think the neighbour is concerned that after 7(? can't remember the exact number) number of years the land will be deemed as a garden/developed land. It is then very very hard to stop a house being built on garden land in the countryside.
Enforcement only enforce if they think it is in the public's interest to do so. You could apply for planning permission, I can't see how it could possibly be turned down. Get some free pre application advice first from the council. Get support from the local parish council.
councillors... MORE common sense? Not in my experience!Of course it's not the planning dept who make the final decision (unless delegated) it's the planning committee of elected councillors. Have a word with the local councillor(s), who might have more common sense.
I’m on this at the moment hopefully a form but fair letter will put things in perspectiveThat's interesting. Planners are hot on agricultural land being used as garden, thus extending the curtilage of the property. That is 'development', change of use' in planning terms.
I'm not sure if it comes under the '4 year rule', or the '10 year rule', but you would have to prove it had been used that way for the right length of time in order to obtain a certificate of legal development.
It is possible recreational equestrian use could be used, though that might be specific to that use.
If this is what is happening it all needs rethinking from the ground up. Again, a written response should clarify the nature of the problem, and if it doesn't write to ask for further clarification.
Thank youIf you mow the area immediately around your house (what we traditionally think of as a garden) and then push/drive your lawnmower around the remaining 3 acres (and you do this every week) then what is the difference? You have extended your garden into the 3 acres. Because of the NPPF (you are not in a built up area) your garden is now a brown field site. Planning policy encourages building on brown field sites.
Even if you are not a regular mower, if the 3 acres is planted or used in such a way that it clearly belongs to your house then it could still be classified as a brownfield site.
Different councils have different views on this. Here in Cornwall the council are building mad, and it is my experience that they are happy for gardens to be extended, particularly if the former use was equestrian.
Have you had anything in writing from them yet? Have you asked for their thinking in writing? You need to see where they are coming from.I’m on this at the moment hopefully a form but fair letter will put things in perspective
Any suggestions on what to put in it?
Do let us know, many here will be interested in knowing the outcome of this.
Thank you for your helpHave you had anything in writing from them yet? Have you asked for their thinking in writing? You need to see where they are coming from.
Its quite likely you can just carry on, the chap who complained will be told they've had a word with you, and probably you are not doing anything they can interfere with, and it will all just go quiet.
But you need clarity, so I'd chase them very simply, asking for something in writing but saying nothing else.
Never forget it is a BIG offence in law to interfere with a person's right to go about their legal business... and 'business' means anything they choose to be doing, not just commercial activity. This applies to planners as much as anyone
Do let us know, many here will be interested in knowing the outcome of this.
Its a good idea (it makes them moveable 'chattels'!) but you've have to tell them you can only move the chattel/s 2 or 3 feet a day!Place them on a trailer, make them mobile (or caravan).
They are wrong: bees are livestock whether you sell any product or not, and thus agricultural. You can do agriculture anywhere as I've shown, so there is no change of use. Again, it might be worth joining the BBKA to see what help they can offer in the legals dept.Just the enforcement notice saying changing agricultural land to domestic
Phone call lead to them saying bees are recreational so domestic unless producing enough honey to supply supermarkets!
He is coming out at some point
Putting a few beehives on a piece of land does not make it a garden. There are a hundred beekeepers on this forum who have bees on land and the land doesn't suddenly become someone back garden by default. That's just crackers.Just the enforcement notice saying changing agricultural land to domestic
Phone call lead to them saying bees are recreational so domestic unless producing enough honey to supply supermarkets!
He is coming out at some point
That is irrelevant though especially since there is a question mark about what the remaining paddock is being classed as. I grow vegetables in my garden, but that doesn't make it an agricultural field. Lemony says fruit trees have been planted, which are found in both agricultural orchards and gardens. A judgement call has to be made about what the land is, scale will come into play, but it is hard to write down hard and fast rules.They are wrong: bees are livestock whether you sell any or not,
It could though if the rest of the land is effectively being used as a garden.Putting a few beehives on a piece of land does not make it a garden.
But lemony isn't setting up an agricultural business. It is clearly a hobby for them. In the opening post:The enforcement notice prohibiting the change in agricultural land to domestic is fine - as you don't want to change the use to domestic any more than he does
I may have to abandon my dream of having bees
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