The law and bee keeping , the use of agricultural land for bees

[BeeGiner]

None of us know the whole story (not even the OP) but emotive conjecture is no help.

I disagree.
We are all beekeepers here so it is easy to side with ourselves without considering non beekeepers "the others".
Emotive conjecture is a good way of bringing out the truth. It's what barristers rely on

 

[Anduril]

Blimey your "The neighbour may originally have been a towny and not know the intricacies of rural life" is enlightening. You don't know anything about them but already have put them in a little box marked "towny not worth considering".
They may have lived in the countryside all their lives, have you checked?

I know both sides of townies and yokels (this may trigger you again). Putting it into perspective, I'm a towny, but spent a lot of my childhood on Dartmoor which is my ancestral home. One house, to this day has never had electric fitted (that includes a generator) and I enjoy both environs.

 

[thorn]

Our house came with covenants in the deeds stating the land couldn't be used to keep livestock so I'm not sure you're entirely correct above.

The first house I owned came with a covenant preventing me from grinding bones and boiling blood. Damn, so much for black pudding.

 

[JamezF]

grinding bones and

For a moment there I was so ready to read "baking bread"

James

 

[thorn]

You may just have succeeded in poking a hole in my assertion, with an obscure and 99.9% certainly irrelevant counter-example. Congratulations.

However you might well be wrong. I doubt planning officers get involved with private covenants even when the the council is one of the parties. To do so would be seen as being partial to the outcome.

A covenant can only be enforced by the person with the benefit of the convenant. The council have no dog in the fight unless they were the landowner who imposed it, as in the case in point.

But a covenant is not a planning matter, and the planning department will not be involved in enforcing one.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Glad to see your intelligent wit hasn't deserted you jenkinsbrynmair

try and use a bit of intelligence in your initial response then

 

[BeeGiner]

try and use a bit of intelligence in your initial response then

LOL

 

[Wilco]

The first house I owned came with a covenant preventing me from grinding bones and boiling blood. Damn, so much for black pudding.

Obviously an anti-giant policy. Such discrimination!

 

[JamezF]

It's just struck me that of course it shouldn't just be honey production under consideration. There's queens and nucs too (and wax, propolis, royal jelly...). Perhaps he'd like to suggest how many hives you need to provide all the queens and nucs for Yorkshire, too?

James

 

[Ian123]

Your keeping the bees there to pollinate and improve the pasture… no commercial gain required!

 

[Beesnaturally]

Your keeping the bees there to pollinate and improve the pasture… no commercial gain required!

Good point, though if it's not your pasture you'd be relying on some sort of contractural arrangement with the owner before it became agricultural (commercial) activity.

 

[Newbeeneil]

It's just struck me that of course it shouldn't just be honey production under consideration. There's queens and nucs too (and wax, propolis, royal jelly...). Perhaps he'd like to suggest how many hives you need to provide all the queens and nucs for Yorkshire, too?

James

It just occurred to me that if this inspector wants the OP to supply all the honey needs of Yorkshire's supermarkets there are going to be a load of pissed off honey suppliers in that area!

If the guy really made that comment he really is a twat and needs to be made to justify his comments as I'm sure he would not put it in writing.

The OP is in a sticky situation as it's his neighbour who has had the order slapped on him and may not be up for a fight in case it queers his pitch with planning in the future.

 

[Beesnaturally]

The OP is in a sticky situation as it's his neighbour who has had the order slapped on him and may not be up for a fight in case it queers his pitch with planning in the future.

While everyone suspects that sort of thing happens, I suspect it doesn't very often at all. Life is easier as a professional if you just go by the book, and the same can probably be said for planning committees. I think the head of the planning committee is the one people try to be careful of; little professionalism and much power. As long as s/he isn't a personal friend of the neighbour (and that's highly unlikely) any future applications and the like will proceed as they should.

 

[Darryl]

Thank you so much for your thoughts
I have asked for the guidelines he was using and he said there isn’t anything specific in his opinion one or two hives are not acceptable but if it was commercial it would be.
I asked how many hives would he consider to be commercial and he said enough to supply all supermarkets in Yorkshire!

He seems to be making it up as he goes along. His opinion is irrellevant unless backed up by clear legialation. His "all supermarkets in Yorkshire" is both laughable and unprofessional. BBKA will probably have a better grasp than he has.
I'd be tempted to put a couple of hives there and see what his response is. His objection would need to be based on clear reasoning.

 

[Anduril]

I'd be tempted to put a couple of hives there and see what his response is. His objection would need to be based on clear reasoning.

I got one beekeeper to make is apiary site bigger, than he needed for that year. He had 2 hives to place in an out apiary on farmland this year, but the size of his apiary means he can expand to either 6 or 8 hives in the future.

 

[Blunt Spike]

Does this only apply to honey bees? I have several bee "hotels" and a couple of insect "lodges" in my garden. I also have some bird boxes and I'm considering bat boxes next year, should I be worried cos I haven't applied for a change of use to a hmo.

Surely, if there are no specific guidelines you can't be in breach of them?

 

[philipm]

If the land had fallen into disrepair it sounds as thought the complainant may have had free access to it (walking dog /kids playing) probably doesnt like that someone has cleared it.But it is their land at the end of the day.

 

[buffon]

I live in the country with a small garden but a large paddock next door to me .My neighbour has kindly agreed to be allow a couple of hives on his land . I have just fenced off an area and he has now had an enforcement notice from the council. I spoke to the officer who had said bees are not allowed on paddock without a change of use of the land as they are not agriculture.
Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I have spent a hugs amount on fencing and I am shocked. The officer has said one or two hives is not acceptable on agricultural land .I may have to abandon my dream of having bees

Any advice or experience regarding the law, or use of agricultural land would be greatly appreciated

Are we talking planning enforcement here? How big is the area you've fenced off? I think the neighbour is concerned that after 7(? can't remember the exact number) number of years the land will be deemed as a garden/developed land. It is then very very hard to stop a house being built on garden land in the countryside.

Enforcement only enforce if they think it is in the public's interest to do so. You could apply for planning permission, I can't see how it could possibly be turned down. Get some free pre application advice first from the council. Get support from the local parish council.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Are we talking planning enforcement here? How big is the area you've fenced off? I think the neighbour is concerned that after 7(? can't remember the exact number) number of years the land will be deemed as a garden/developed land. It is then very very hard to stop a house being built on garden land in the countryside.

Enforcement only enforce if they think it is in the public's interest to do so. You could apply for planning permission, I can't see how it could possibly be turned down. Get some free pre application advice first from the council. Get support from the local parish council.

You have to live, openly, someplace for the ten year rule to apply.

As you say, they won't enforce unless it's in the public interest. But visiting and telling fibs isn't enforcing. Even writing official letters is only a threat to enforce. Going to court for an order to physically remove the offending parts is enforcing, and that it where the public interest calculation comes into play.
All of which is beside the point as the op is within his rights to keep bees anywhere the landowner gives permission as far as I can tell.

 

[Darryl]

While everyone suspects that sort of thing happens, I suspect it doesn't very often at all. Life is easier as a professional if you just go by the book, and the same can probably be said for planning committees. I think the head of the planning committee is the one people try to be careful of; little professionalism and much power. As long as s/he isn't a personal friend of the neighbour (and that's highly unlikely) any future applications and the like will proceed as they should.

Of course it's not the planning dept who make the final decision (unless delegated) it's the planning committee of elected councillors. Have a word with the local councillor(s), who might have more common sense.