Syrup “honey”

[Tony Slater]

I’ve been feeding my bees 2:1 sugar-to-water syrup. They’ve taken down a lot. I was inspecting a couple of hives today and was reminded that there is little difference if any in in appearance between processed and stored nectar, ie “honey”, and processed and stored syrup ie “sugar hobey”. What is the difference? By the time the syrup is stored the sucrose in the sugar has been broken down (I assume) into fructose and glucose by the action of invertase, as with nectar. The bees will evaporate the water from the syrup to get it to the right concentration, as they do with nectar. And the syrup would contain hydrogen peroxide from the action of glucose oxidase. All that’s missing from the “sugar honey“ are the minute quantities of polyphenols from the source plants of the nectar (although sugar beet are themselves rich in polyphenols). Perhaps a blueberry in each jar of “sugar honey” would make up for the lack of polyphenols.

Has anybody tried eating “sugar honey” from their own hives. Is it any good? (By they I know it is illegal to describe sugar honey as “honey”.)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bland tasting
Doesn’t taste anything like honey
It’s stored syrup

 

[Penninetrader]

I’ve been feeding my bees 2:1 sugar-to-water syrup. They’ve taken down a lot. I was inspecting a couple of hives today and was reminded that there is little difference if any in in appearance between processed and stored nectar, ie “honey”, and processed and stored syrup ie “sugar hobey”. What is the difference? By the time the syrup is stored the sucrose in the sugar has been broken down (I assume) into fructose and glucose by the action of invertase, as with nectar. The bees will evaporate the water from the syrup to get it to the right concentration, as they do with nectar. And the syrup would contain hydrogen peroxide from the action of glucose oxidase. All that’s missing from the “sugar honey“ are the minute quantities of polyphenols from the source plants of the nectar (although sugar beet are themselves rich in polyphenols). Perhaps a blueberry in each jar of “sugar honey” would make up for the lack of polyphenols.

Has anybody tried eating “sugar honey” from their own hives. Is it any good? (By they I know it is illegal to describe sugar honey as “honey”.)

What if this is a blend of nectar and sugar syrup at unknown ratios

 

[boywonder]

Bland tasting
Doesn’t taste anything like honey
It’s stored syrup

I disagree with some of that comment, Dani.

I am usually militant about not feeding at any other point than autumn. In fact, I'm paranoid about getting syrup in my supers... So much so that when I did do a small amount of stimulative feeding to two colonies away from my production hives this year (in order to use these solely for queen rearing), I used food dye to colour the syrup.

One of these colonies processed and stored said syrup ... leaving me with two supers of blue 'honey' - one of which I extracted (in order to be able to feed it back in autumn).

Of course, I tried it. Yes, it was a little bland, and it was very sweet, but it did taste of honey.

A couple of months ago I recall reading an article in Beecraft written by Willie Robson, where he was explaining the role of in-season feeding, and accepting, it seems, that a good proportion of the extracted crop would contain processed syrup (which I found to be a surprising admission).

I also recall reading about one international honey show (was it something to do with Apimonda?) where a high proportion of exhibits (presumably submitted by genuine, earnest beekeepers) were found to contain refined sugars.

.... By which, I think I'm trying to make the argument that stored syrups can pass the taste test ... to at least some degree.

 

[Penninetrader]

I disagree with some of that comment, Dani.

I am usually militant about not feeding at any other point than autumn. In fact, I'm paranoid about getting syrup in my supers... So much so that when I did do a small amount of stimulative feeding to two colonies away from my production hives this year (in order to use these solely for queen rearing), I used food dye to colour the syrup.

One of these colonies processed and stored said syrup ... leaving me with two supers of blue 'honey' - one of which I extracted (in order to be able to feed it back in autumn).

Of course, I tried it. Yes, it was a little bland, and it was very sweet, but it did taste of honey.

A couple of months ago I recall reading an article in Beecraft written by Willie Robson, where he was explaining the role of in-season feeding, and accepting, it seems, that a good proportion of the extracted crop would contain processed syrup (which I found to be a surprising admission).

I also recall reading about one international honey show (was it something to do with Apimonda?) where a high proportion of exhibits (presumably submitted by genuine, earnest beekeepers) were found to contain refined sugars.

.... By which, I think I'm trying to make the argument that stored syrups can pass the taste test ... to at least some degree.

I tend to smell the honey to detect pollen, funny thing is that the jar I use personally I refill from larger containers and the contents always pick up the smell from that personal jar. I recovered honey from a colony that had been abandoned due to the death of their keeper. It was a blend of 5 years with taste and smell that lingers on in my personal storage jars. None of my crops come even close to their vintage imo

 

[Erichalfbee]

I disagree with some of that comment, Dani.

By which, I think I'm trying to make the argument that stored syrups can pass the taste test

I stand corrected. What I should have said

To my palate it is bland tasting
For me it doesn’t taste anything like honey
It’s stored syrup

 

[Erichalfbee]

funny thing is that the jar I use personally I refill from larger containers and the contents always pick up the smell from that personal jar.

Same here...especially if I've had heather honey in that jar

 

[Chris Hancock]

Sadly, I can't eat any sugar, so can't even taste my bee's honey, but if feeding syrup, that hopefully gets stored in the top brood-box for winter. If it's such a full hive, I sometimes have to leave a super on for space, but that will be kept for the bees, not extracted. I can't imagine that syrup will become lovely honey, but suspect that some producers might not distinguish, if it suits them.

 

[Mint Bee]

A couple of months ago I recall reading an article in Beecraft written by Willie Robson, where he was explaining the role of in-season feeding, and accepting, it seems, that a good proportion of the extracted crop would contain processed syrup (which I found to be a surprising admission).

When one is faced with hive starvation, and either feeding syrup or producing a dead colony, there is only one option, unless part of the Darwin side of beekeepers. The art is to minimize any transfer of feed to honey crop. Someone keeping a few hives in their immediate location can add / remove feed as an immediate response to local availability of nectar. With a larger operation on a 7-to-10-day rotation, its far more difficult, so I don't see the comment as surprising. The only way to absolutely avoid any sugar syrup in honey is to not feed sugar at any time, or to feedback previously extracted honey.

 

[fian]

Of course, I tried it. Yes, it was a little bland, and it was very sweet, but it did taste of honey.

If that were true, the Chinese would have discovered how to turn lead into gold.

 

[Eyeman]

I disagree with some of that comment, Dani.

I am usually militant about not feeding at any other point than autumn. In fact, I'm paranoid about getting syrup in my supers... So much so that when I did do a small amount of stimulative feeding to two colonies away from my production hives this year (in order to use these solely for queen rearing), I used food dye to colour the syrup.

One of these colonies processed and stored said syrup ... leaving me with two supers of blue 'honey' - one of which I extracted (in order to be able to feed it back in autumn).

Of course, I tried it. Yes, it was a little bland, and it was very sweet, but it did taste of honey.

A couple of months ago I recall reading an article in Beecraft written by Willie Robson, where he was explaining the role of in-season feeding, and accepting, it seems, that a good proportion of the extracted crop would contain processed syrup (which I found to be a surprising admission).

I also recall reading about one international honey show (was it something to do with Apimonda?) where a high proportion of exhibits (presumably submitted by genuine, earnest beekeepers) were found to contain refined sugars.

.... By which, I think I'm trying to make the argument that stored syrups can pass the taste test ... to at least some degree.

Stores get mixed up as they come into the hive & get moved around. Sugar syrup can get mixed with honey either stored or foraged that’s why yours tasted of honey. If there’s no mixing then it won’t taste of honey.

 

[Antipodes]

The only way to absolutely avoid any sugar syrup in honey is to not feed sugar at any time, or to feedback previously extracted honey.

If a colony that has stores of sugar syrup/honey, gets weak or dies out and is robbed, that syrup honey will get transferred.

 

[ericbeaumont]

What is the difference? By the time the syrup is stored the sucrose in the sugar has been broken down (I assume) into fructose and glucose by the action of invertase, as with nectar.

the Chinese would have discovered how to turn lead into gold.

It is said that they have, and that some Chinese honey is produced by feeding sugar.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

It is said that they have, and that some Chinese honey is produced by feeding sugar.

I read an article from some time back by an American bee farmer making the case that the 'honey' his bees made from the high fructose corn syrup he fed them should be considered 'real' because he was merely providing a substitute for nectar. The bees processed it just the same and made real honey, he said. (Of course the almost universal definition for honey now precludes that claim.)

 

[Murox]

It was I suppose a good attempt at word twisting, but the Americans seem to be good at it generally.

 

[Tony Slater]

So what is it that gives honey its distinctive taste? Whatever the honey was made of it still has an unmistakeable flavour. You might be able to detect the added flavours from lime, blackberry, heather or OCR but where is the underlying honey taste coming from. Is it from nectar or from the bees. The common denominator is the enzymes and other chemicals from bees, not from the nectar or honeydew which each have its own spectrum of polyphenols.

So if the unique taste comes from the bees, then they can just as easily impart that taste to sugar “honey”. It’s going to be difficult to test this as, as has been said above, my bees’ stores are likely to be a mixture of sugar honey and honey.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So if the unique taste comes from the bees, then they can just as easily impart that taste to sugar “honey”. It’s going to be difficult to test this as, as has been said above, my bees’ stores are likely to be a mixture of sugar honey and honey.

Maybe not that difficult. If any stored syrup still has sucrose present…. Gotcha!

 

[Tony Slater]

Maybe not that difficult. If any stored syrup still has sucrose present…. Gotcha!

But nectar contains a lot of sucrose, as well as fructose and glucose. That’s why bees need to secrete invertase, in order to invert the sucrose, which presumably they would do whether the sucrose is in nectar or syrup.

 

[Erichalfbee]

But nectar contains a lot of sucrose, as well as fructose and glucose. That’s why bees need to secrete invertase, in order to invert the sucrose, which presumably they would do whether the sucrose is in nectar or syrup.

Yes you’re right
Not thinking straight.