"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[Ian123]

I forgive you. But we're now heading back down that rabbit hole where opinion reigns and no-one can win. As I said when I restarted this thread, "bees are tough". They mostly seem to survive whatever, thank goodness.

I spend a lot of time seeking forgiveness.!!
As to opinions they will always vary greatly, what I can say is this colonies in thin walled wooden hives will outlive/perform/survive their free living counterparts in naturally selected and insulated cavities. If any reading this disagree then by all means please say so and provide any info.

 

[fian]

Perhaps the closest thing to a natural location is the solution that has been used in my region until the generalization of modern hives.
the "quercus suber" cork oak generates a bark with very good properties. When this bark is thick enough, it is removed by making three cuts (upper and lower along the perimeter of the trunk and a third vertical one joining the two cuts). A hollow cylinder is obtained which only needs to be made a hole for the entrance.
In a video that I posted yesterday you can see a "cortizo" to the left of the screen. You can also see the crown board of this material and the original roof in rye and/or wheat straw.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What we do know as fact is bees in wooden thin walled hives thrive and their survival far surpasses anything in the wild in naturally insulated cavities! I’d take a bet with anyone that a colony of mine in a thin walled wooden hive outlives the 1 in a nearby insulated tree.

Maybe it's because we treat the colony to kill as much varroa as we can?

 

[Ian123]

Maybe it's because we treat the colony to kill as much varroa as we can?

Yes entirely possible……But I forget you’re young enough not to remember the days before, and it would be true then.

 

[pargyle]

Maybe it's because we treat the colony to kill as much varroa as we can?

I think the decline in 'wild' or 'feral' colonies has multiple reasons - yes varroa must have an effect but when you look at the changes in our landscape - even in my (our) lifetimes. There has been a massive change in the rural landscape in much of the UK. Huge fields, managed or removed hedgerows, embedded trees removed - more so when they are in late stage decline. Modern farm buildings, built from steel and other modern materials that have no cavities, modern and modernised domestic property that is hermetically sealed. There are fewer opportunities for honey bees to make their home in the wild. The plethora of swarm collectors remove swarms and house them in ... guess what - managed hives. I don't think that all wild colonies are just dying out because of varroa - I think that the opportunities for survival are limited.

If they are limited in the rural landscape, it's worse in the urban environment ... all the factors above but magnified as councils (at least in my area) seem intent on demolishing any trees that look remotely as though they are starting to rot when, in the past, they would have been left to decay and die naturally - perhaps decades after the initial signs of ageing with monstrous cavities. In our area there are few 'old' or derelict buildings - they are snapped up and returned to domestic use. Ancient barns and farm buildings throughout the country are valuable to farmers - they sell them for far more than they are worth with a Class Q planning consent and ... they get redeveloped into domestic accommodation and are hermetically sealed. Lets face it as well - modern society rarely accepts a colony of wild bees living in their proximity and seek to remove them - or worse, kill them off and seal the cavity.

We see bees finding homes in compost bins, telecomms boxes and a host of strange (and largely inappropriate) places to colonise - if there were more natural homes to be had then I think bees would find them.

There's more to it than just varroa ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

There's more to it than just varroa ...

But are we talking about all bees that live outside hives. I thought we were talking about bees living in trees v in our boxes. Of course there is more to it but bees living in trees have the same access to forage as those in hives put underneath them.

 

[pargyle]

But are we talking about all bees that live outside hives. I thought we were talking about bees living in trees v in our boxes. Of course there is more to it but bees living in trees have the same access to forage as those in hives put underneath them.

As usual ... I've taken the thread off at a tangent .... probably as well considering its origin !!

 

[Swarm]

Pointless comparison really, there are other things to factor in. If we kept bees in a single brood box and allowed them to swarm, we could then compare with any known colony in a tree. No treatments or feeding, of course.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Depends on the size of the tree cavity

 

[Antipodes]

Maybe it's because we treat the colony to kill as much varroa as we can?

But not here and the field evidence seems to align with what Ian says.

 

[Erichalfbee]

But not here and the field evidence seems to align with what Ian says.

So as Philip says, there's more to it

 

[Jules59]

Loss of habitat is a huge issue.
We live yards from the Heart of England Way. A not infrequent comment made by ramblers is how few birds there are around here. I think its because there are few insects and a resultant poor food chain.
We have many fields of non-flowering crops pretty much all year and even when we do have crops with flowers they don't seem much use to insects eg linseed.
I stood in the middle of a beautiful blue linseed field last year - it was utterly silent. It wasn't until you moved to the thistles at the borders did you see /hear any insects.

 

[Into the lions den]

Linseed is a non nectar plant. The silence in the field reflects that, not the general bee health of the area. Its just of no interest to bees.

Despite that there is at least one UK beekeepers offers linseed flower honey as a speciality.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A not infrequent comment made by ramblers is how few birds there are around here

probably because they keep getting disturbed by some kagooled clown in boots crashing through the fields chewing a chunk of Kendal mintcake

 

[Ian123]

Linseed is a non nectar plant. The silence in the field reflects that, not the general bee health of the area. Its just of no interest to bees.

Despite that there is at least one UK beekeepers offers linseed flower honey as a speciality.

Someone appears to also have raw! Linseed honey
https://baxbees.co.uk/shop/variatalhoney/linseed-copy/

 

[Murox]

I can recall tales about the flowers closing up and falling off on sunny days but lasting longer on cloudy ones, it was considered a weak source pollen and nectar. If there’s something better in the area bees will choose it over flax, but that’s pretty much par for the course with bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Someone appears to also have raw! Linseed honey
https://baxbees.co.uk/shop/variatalhoney/linseed-copy/

Do they also sell boiled linseed honey as an alternative?

 

[Ian123]

RAW boiled linseed!!!!!

 

[Wilco]

Loss of habitat is a huge issue.
We live yards from the Heart of England Way. A not infrequent comment made by ramblers is how few birds there are around here. I think its because there are few insects and a resultant poor food chain.
We have many fields of non-flowering crops pretty much all year and even when we do have crops with flowers they don't seem much use to insects eg linseed.
I stood in the middle of a beautiful blue linseed field last year - it was utterly silent. It wasn't until you moved to the thistles at the borders did you see /hear any insects.

Perturbation by humans (worse when they have dogs with them) is a significant sublethal effect on the ability of organisms to survive. Ramblers going through wilderness or even countryside might be nice for the ramblers but it has a negative impact upon the wildlife, which is prevented from feeding (self or young) or moved on from hiding spots because potential predators keep trampling through, as well as for a period afterwards whilst the wildlife waits for the coast to be clear. People may enjoy the countryside but that doesn't mean the countryside enjoys them.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Its just of no interest to bees.

Yes, seems that it's mosty self-pollinated, though oddly, this bio of linseed suggests seed yield is increased by pollination by bees.

If so, the reward is difficult to access. Seems bees got what nectar there was by entering between the petals at the base of the flower; would have to be a pretty desperate bee to go to the trouble.