"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[Erichalfbee]

And of course, there have been scientific studies made on drone movements where they were marked, sometimes even using numbered/coloured disks.

Yes of course. I’d be quite excited if I found one of those on inspection.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, and I think it's perhaps telling that it didn't appear to be until after the DNA tests were done that people were told the results couldn't be announced because they were covered by an NDA.

James

There's a clue here
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/amm-native-black-bee-discussion.52036/page-20#post-852260

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so no earth shattering news there then

 

[Ian123]

I think rather the results many of us expected!!..Also these colonies are now free living rather than referring to them as wild. I’d very much like to see some research in the UK but also like to see it carried out by people without an agenda, I suspect the chances of this are slim.

 

[user 20297]

Much as I hate reviving this contentious thread, (I lie) I was interested to see images of a colony that had been surviving un-noticed (it seems) in a tree in Dufftown in the Scottish Highlands. It was blown open in storms the other day, but the bees are now still survivors in someone's hive. They are tough things at times these bees.

 

[fian]

Much as I hate reviving this contentious thread, (I lie) I was interested to see images of a colony that had been surviving un-noticed (it seems) in a tree in Dufftown in the Scottish Highlands. It was blown open in storms the other day, but the bees are now still survivors in someone's hive. They are tough things at times these bees.


View attachment 35250

A single panel 17cm (1/2 foot) wide and 100 cm (1 yard) high?.

 

[user 20297]

More

A single panel 17cm (1/2 foot) wide and 100 cm (1 yard) high?.

More than that I think; I did not see it myself. There were more images with removed comb, some of it had capped brood.

 

[user 6228]

Notice how the wood nearest the cavity is no longer like the wood you would get if it was a sawn log.

 

[Ian123]

Notice how the wood nearest the cavity is no longer like the wood you would get if it was a sawn log.

It’s just rotting wood

 

[Antipodes]

Much as I hate reviving this contentious thread, (I lie) I was interested to see images of a colony that had been surviving un-noticed (it seems) in a tree in Dufftown in the Scottish Highlands. It was blown open in storms the other day, but the bees are now still survivors in someone's hive. They are tough things at times these bees.


View attachment 35250

It looks like they've chosen a nice safe spot there with thick wood around them to protect the colony and stores from bears and other predators
...that is until the storm.

 

[user 6228]

It’s just rotting wood

rotted wood has different thermal conductivity to freshly sawn.

 

[Ian123]

rotted wood has different thermal conductivity to freshly sawn.

Mmmm…….. not sure that’s really helping them at the moment…..but what’s the surprise there’s rotting wood in a tree cavity?

 

[user 20297]

"rotted wood has different thermal conductivity to freshly sawn."



I know the stuff you're talking about. At a certain stage,when dead wood has been sapped of nutrients but still has some structural integrity and a bit of moisture, it smells very pleasant and is spongy but is resilient. It is very light and must retain a certain amount of air and therefore will insulate better than live timber. This will be especially so when you consider the thickness of an ancient tree such as photographed compared with a thin-walled box..

By beautiful coincidence, this sort of wood makes ideal smoker fuel.

 

[user 20297]

It looks like they've chosen a nice safe spot there with thick wood around them to protect the colony and stores from bears and other predators

Mmmm…….. not sure that’s really helping them at the moment…..but what’s the surprise there’s rotting wood in a tree cavity?

...that is until the storm.

The fact that Nature strikes out and randomly destroys the bees' home does not change the Laws of Physics regarding the insulative properties of the tree before the catastrophe. Who knows how long ago it was that bees first chose that tree? According to the wise ones on this forum, that tree may have harboured multiple escapees from captivity over the years; unfortunately, lasts year's was the unlucky generation.....or maybe not, because now they are "safe" in the hands of a beekeeper.....or are they?

 

[Antipodes]

Much as I hate reviving this contentious thread, (I lie) I was interested to see images of a colony that had been surviving un-noticed (it seems) in a tree in Dufftown in the Scottish Highlands. It was blown open in storms the other day, but the bees are now still survivors in someone's hive. They are tough things at times these bees.


View attachment 35250

It's somewhat hard to see where the original cavity was that was available to the bees given the massive disruption, but the section I've highlighted shows a harder surfaced section which appears to have been at least part of the cavity area available to the bees. I doubt that they had access to the spongy material. Insulation seems to be of far more significance to some forumites than it is to honey bees . It's in our nature to anthropomorphise their activities. For instance, we deliberately heat our living spaces but I don't see bees doing that. Their primary focus is surely to protect themselves and their stores from predators? Out of interest, do you know where the entrance was?

 

[Ian123]

The fact that Nature strikes out and randomly destroys the bees' home does not change the Laws of Physics regarding the insulative properties of the tree before the catastrophe. Who knows how long ago it was that bees first chose that tree? According to the wise ones on this forum, that tree may have harboured multiple escapees from captivity over the years; unfortunately, lasts year's was the unlucky generation.....or maybe not, because now they are "safe" in the hands of a beekeeper.....or are they?

Not sure any are arguing about varying properties of wood rotted or not. I’m not surprised there’s rotted wood in a cavity who would be. I’ve opened trees that have had rot and also the most amazing hard wood almost water worn by the bees with a pronounced grain, it was truly a piece of art!……Is the suggestion that the bees have chosen the cavity because of this insulating rotten wood?

 

[user 20297]

Not sure any are arguing about varying properties of wood rotted or not. I’m not surprised there’s rotted wood in a cavity who would be. I’ve opened trees that have had rot and also the most amazing hard wood almost water worn by the bees with a pronounced grain, it was truly a piece of art!……Is the suggestion that the bees have chosen the cavity because of this insulated rotten wood?

Good point. But I don't see anyone saying that is the reason the bees were there or that they are attracted to or actively seeking rotten wood or any other kind of material. It happens that rotten tree cavities can make well insulated nests, as can the earth around ground nests or the density of masonry and mortar in thick stone walls.

@derekm can speak very well for himself, but what I take from his comments is a constant reminder to us, not that bees are "clever" in choosing locations for their homes, but that most, naturally available nests have better insulative qualities than a standard, wooden beehive.

 

[user 20297]

It's somewhat hard to see where the original cavity was that was available to the bees given the massive disruption, but the section I've highlighted shows a harder surfaced section which appears to have been at least part of the cavity area available to the bees. I doubt that they had access to the spongy material. Insulation seems to be of far more significance to some forumites than it is to honey bees . It's in our nature to anthropomorphise their activities. For instance, we deliberately heat our living spaces but I don't see bees doing that. Their primary focus is surely to protect themselves and their stores from predators? Out of interest, do you know where the entrance was?

It's hard to say as I haven't witnessed it, simply seen it on a local Facebook page.

 

[Ian123]

@derekm can speak very well for himself, but what I take from his comments is a constant reminder to us, not that bees are "clever" in choosing locations for their homes, but that most, naturally available nests have better insulative qualities than a standard, wooden beehive.

I’m not actually sure that natural locations would have better insulation qualities in many instances. Its Mother Nature so no 2 will ever be the same, we’ve seen many pics on the forum of natural nests with exposed comb or a bloody great rip down the trunk. I’ve seen many over the years with entrances at the top of colonies releasing all that warm air.
What we do know as fact is bees in wooden thin walled hives thrive and their survival far surpasses anything in the wild in naturally insulated cavities! I’d take a bet with anyone that a colony of mine in a thin walled wooden hive outlives the 1 in a nearby insulated tree. So forgive me when I wonder why people extol the virtues of a tree trunkor bemoan the poor insulating qualities of wooden hives.

 

[user 20297]

I’m not actually sure that natural locations would have better insulation qualities in many instances. Its Mother Nature so no 2 will ever be the same, we’ve seen many pics on the forum of natural nests with exposed comb or a bloody great rip down the trunk. I’ve seen many over the years with entrances at the top of colonies releasing all that warm air.
What we do know as fact is bees in wooden thin walled hives thrive and their survival far surpasses anything in the wild in naturally insulated cavities! I’d take a bet with anyone that a colony of mine in a thin walled wooden hive outlives the 1 in a nearby insulated tree. So forgive me when I wonder why people extol the virtues of a tree trunk

I forgive you. But we're now heading back down that rabbit hole where opinion reigns and no-one can win. As I said when I restarted this thread, "bees are tough". They mostly seem to survive whatever, thank goodness.