"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[Erichalfbee]

I did a search and those I found were closed for further replies. Sorry, didn't look hard enough.

Don’t worry. I was jesting. There is a place this would be right at home but it’s ok here.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I too am a bit slow today, and other days...

 

[JamezF]

I'm not sure that either of those two things is a recommendation. The forums are no stranger to non-scientists taking a 'scientific' approach, nor to beekeepers believing they are reading and learning something of scientific value from them when they are not.

David Evans, however, is a genuine scientist who does bee-specific science in a professional capacity.

James

 

[JamezF]

Because I belong to this public forum, and making my views known here is one of the things I'm here for. If he wants to read them here, and reply here, I'll be happy to have the conversation - here.

Why should he come here? Should he visit every single beekeeping forum and blog in which someone might criticise his writing? You have the beef. You take it to him. That you are willing to criticise his postings here, but not anywhere he might actually see such criticism doesn't exactly suggest to the dispassionate observer that you have confidence in your opinions.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The forums are no stranger to non-scientists taking a 'scientific' approach

you being the worst cuprit

 

[Erichalfbee]

wild bees alive and flourishing all over the UK, including in beekeepers hives.

I've had a few of those

 

[JamezF]

I've had a few of those

They certainly look a touch stroppy to me

James

 

[Beesnaturally]

Why should he come here? Should he visit every single beekeeping forum and blog in which someone might criticise his writing? You have the beef. You take it to him. That you are willing to criticise his postings here, but not anywhere he might actually see such criticism doesn't exactly suggest to the dispassionate observer that you have confidence in your opinions.

James

Why should I have to go and find every writer who's thoughts are posted here? Something gets put up: we get a chance to react. Its all on topic. What is your beef James?

 

[Beesnaturally]

David Evans, however, is a genuine scientist who does bee-specific science in a professional capacity.

James

He seems to be a virologist who has worked on bee viruses. I don't think that qualifies him to make statements that are dramatically at odds with a substantial body of scientific studies of the specific issue of the development of resistance to varroa bees in wild populations.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Don’t worry. I was jesting. There is a place this would be right at home but it’s ok here.

Perhaps you could be specific for future reference?

 

[JamezF]

Why should I have to go and find every writer who's thoughts are posted here?

I'll pass on the fact that it was a link to his text, not his actual text since it's largely the same thing.

And I'll pass on the fact that no-one actually said you should "go and find every writer who's thoughts are posted here".

The fact is that in this specific case you did actually do just that. You clearly went and read it, otherwise you couldn't have posted the extracts here. But you don't appear to have the cojones to say to his face (as it were) "I think you're wrong, and here's why".

James

 

[Beesnaturally]

I'll pass on the fact that it was a link to his text, not his actual text since it's largely the same thing.

And I'll pass on the fact that no-one actually said you should "go and find every writer who's thoughts are posted here".

The fact is that in this specific case you did actually do just that. You clearly went and read it, otherwise you couldn't have posted the extracts here. But you don't appear to have the cojones to say to his face (as it were) "I think you're wrong, and here's why".

James

Much as I'd like to take issue with most of that I don't think it will be helpful.

Please do pass on whatever you like, and say I would be very interested to query with him a few aspects of that blog post, here where other interested parties here can see us.

 

[user 20297]

I'm not sure that either of those two things is a recommendation. The forums are no stranger to non-scientists taking a 'scientific' approach, nor to beekeepers believing they are reading and learning something of scientific value from them when they are not.

I've yet to find much I can agree with in such exchanges.


That's fine. I've said here, and elsewhere previously, that interaction between free-living and apiary bees would make an interesting conversation, hoping that is read as one I'll be open to participating in. Perhaps he will respond to my critique here.

The overlap is considerable. From my side I ask, for example, what happens when you put treatment-reliant bred black bees close to free living native black bees. I think we all know the answer to that, and that means, if you value those native populations: don't.

As interesting to some might be the way my collected feral/live and let die bees seem to be turning black....
Me too.

You would struggle to find an author who is more thorough in acknowledging the side and related issues implicated in his writing. The overlap between the subject of feral bees and varroa-tolerance may be considerable, but having chosen his subject for discussion, he can't be criticised for not talking about matters that we would like him to explore.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Perhaps you could be specific for future reference?

Maybe

 

[Beesnaturally]

You would struggle to find an author who is more thorough in acknowledging the side and related issues implicated in his writing. The overlap between the subject of feral bees and varroa-tolerance may be considerable, but having chosen his subject for discussion, he can't be criticised for not talking about matters that we would like him to explore.

I thought he was talking about how we might know whether possibly wild colonies were actually wild and varroa resistant or escapees.

His scientific expertise is in virology.

 

[Wilco]

I thought he was talking about how we might know whether possibly wild colonies were actually wild and varroa resistant or escapees.

His scientific expertise is in virology.

And your scientific expertise, by your own admission, is nil. Therefore, by your own line of logic (which you are applying to him), your views on science should be considered invalid.

Conversely, if, as suggested by many of your posts on this forum, you expect us to genuinely consider whether your views on something outside your area of expertise (science, by your own admission) have merit, I suggest you desist from the absolute hypocrisy of your double standards.

 

[user 20297]

I thought he was talking about how we might know whether possibly wild colonies were actually wild and varroa resistant or escapees.

His scientific expertise is in virology.

Only in his is final sentence does he get onto the subject of varroa-tolerance; I suspect that this is the teaser for a future blog posting.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

statements that are dramatically at odds with a substantial body of scientific studies of the specific issue of the development of resistance to varroa bees in wild populations.

maybe you would like to list them, as you have failed to furnish any proof of their existence to date

 

[Beesnaturally]

And your scientific expertise, by your own admission, is nil. Therefore, by your own line of logic (which you are applying to him), your views on science should be considered invalid.

Anybody - anybody - who makes statements that fly in the face of proper scientific studies can be called to account by anyone.

 

[Beesnaturally]

maybe you would like to list them, as you have failed to furnish any proof of their existence to date

Au contraire, I detailed (some of) them in my critique.