Super above or below brood over the winter??

[simonorchard]

Hi
I use a 14x12 deep brood box but I also have some stores on a super. Which is the best set-up over winter:

1) Super above brood with QX between the two (presumably the cluster won't break up and leave the queen so they won't move up to take the super stores?)
2) Super above brood with no QX (The queen may move up and start laying in the super in spring before first inspection?)
3) Brood above super with QX between the two (As per 1 plus any drones hatching won't be able to leave the hive as they can't get through QX to get out?)
4) Brood above super with no QX (as per 2?)

Thanks in advance
Simon

 

[For want of a better word]

NO qe
Super full of thymolated stores below
Crownboad on to of BB
hole for fondant feeder through insulation.............
Cellotex, carpet tile or Grannies old rug

LARGE DO NOT DISTURB UNTIL SPRING sign on front

Bees do not like ACID for Christmas or even Ground Hog Day !!!!!

IMO... nuff said?

 

[Black Comb]

I'm with Hopit.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I'd question if you need a super on a 14x12, assuming its rammed full of stores - I'd have though it would need to be an extreamly big colony to justify the extra space to keep warm.

Personally if you are leaving a super on I'd leave it above, its where they like to see their stores (and I'd put on oxalic, though not sure thats terribly relevant!) , which just goes to prove that ask 5 different beeks a question you'll get 11.6 different answers

But definitely NO QE - the cluster can indeed break and leave the queen behind to catch her death.

 

[oliver90owner]

with MA. In fact, I would go further and say you do not need anything other than the brood box.

Definitely no Q/E - ever on any hive over the winter - it is a no, no!

Q/Es are for keeping the brooding area separate from the crop. They have no use on a hive in the winter (apart from those that use one for feeding fondant) and can be seriously detrimental to the well-being of the colony.

RAB

 

[Hebeegeebee]

4.

I insulate above the brood. If you have a 14 x 12 and a super I doubt you'll need to feed so you don't need to cut the insulation.

 

[susbees]

with MA. In fact, I would go further and say you do not need anything other than the brood box.

Definitely no Q/E - ever on any hive over the winter - it is a no, no!

Q/Es are for keeping the brooding area separate from the crop. They have no use on a hive in the winter (apart from those that use one for feeding fondant) and can be seriously detrimental to the well-being of the colony.

RAB

And acid only for the two with the highest drops. Rest no way.

 

[simonorchard]

thanks everyone,
Interesting on the insulation front - I thought us Londoners can get away without insulation and that the more important thing is ventilation (mesh fppr should answer that one though?)
And on the acid front: North London Beekeepers Assoc advise us to use Oxalic acid at Christmas...

 

[Finman]

I'd question if you need a super on a 14x12, assuming its rammed full of stores - I'd have though it would need to be an extreamly big colony to justify the extra space to keep warm.

that is the first question when you consider what to do.

The hive must be in 5 box in summer that it needs one and half in winter.

I have had 8 boxes in summer and the hive needs only one and half now.

 

[For want of a better word]

Hope you buy bottled water to mix your evil potions up with.....
acid rain and all that in the London basin!

 

[drstitson]

ELGA of course.

 

[Andy Duff]

I'm with o90o. A 12 x 14 should be fine on its own with the possibility of adding e very slim eke on top of brood for fondant, then crown board and all the insulation you can pack between it and roof

 

[djg]

simonorchard,

I'm going with option (4) on my London 14 x 12s, since they are on a windy rooftop.

On the other hand, 2 of my colonies overwintered in Queen's Park (near Kilburn) to facilitate building works on neighbour's house last year. They overwintered very well on single BB and 5-frame nuc in a sheltered garden, without supers below.

So I guess you have to decide how exposed your hives are, all things considered.

Good luck !