Crown board ventilation over winter

[pargyle]

Having a propolised rip off correx coverboard works from a practical beekeeping point of view. Been using it for several years. Try it

But ... I'm a bee watcher Derek ... I like to be able to lift the roof off, move the PIR and peer through my clear polycarbonate crowboards at what they are doing ... doesn't disturb them unduly and it's a real treat on Christmas day to avoid the washing up, the inevitable lousy TV and surfeit of After Eight mints after Christmas lunch. Whist I can see the benefit to the bees of thin correx on top of the bars ... there has to be a compromise, I spoil my bees rotten as it is !

(I know I'm sad ... and not a proper beekeeper !)

 

[Erichalfbee]

But ... I'm a bee watcher Derek I spoil my bees rotten as it is !

(I know I'm sad ... and not a proper beekeeper !)

You mean you have PET bees?

 

[JamezF]

You mean you have PET bees?

He names every single one. Did you not know?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This conversation is swiftly moving into the realms of LaLa land

 

[Vanterrier]

Before you all get to La La Land a bit of advice please... I recently placed a 12.5kg slab of fondant on a QE direct on top of the top frames. I put an eke on and filled the gap with loose insulation in a polythene bag before adding a crown board and an insulated gabled roof.
So when the fondant is gone ( eaten and/or moved) if I wait for a warmish day, can I safely remove the QE and loose insulation and replace them with a clear polycarbonate quilt with PIR with a feeder window in it to give them more fondant if or when required? Presumably I don't have to leave everything as it is now until spring?
K

 

[pargyle]

You mean you have PET bees?

Of course ... they still have a job to do ...

 

[pargyle]

He names every single one. Did you not know?

James

I know every one's name ... they are all called Beatrice - Bee for short.

 

[pargyle]

This conversation is swiftly moving into the realms of LaLa land

It's nearly winter... what did you expect ? At least nobody is arguing about how to make 2:1 syrup ... although someone is sailing close to the wind asking about how to make fondant !

 

[Antipodes]

Having a propolised rip off correx coverboard works from a practical beekeeping point of view. Been using it for several years. Try it

Are you aware of the use of a hive mat here in Australia with the Langstroth hive and migratory lid?

See page 11 if you are interested under "Hive Covers" and "Hive Mat".

https://www.agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/publications/14-098.pdf

 

[ericbeaumont]

have to leave everything as it is now until spring?

You don't have to, but I do: less work & less disturbance, but then I use upturned Abelo Ashforth feeders to eke the fondant, so insulation above the fondant & nest is adequate for longer. Still have to heft and add more if necessary.

a raised lip on the crown board that gives a 5mm gap between board and the PIR actually give an extra 5mm of good insulation.

Good to know, but for practical ease, it's quicker to slap the PIR on the board inside the rim. Much lost or gained?

Wonder how Lizzie is getting on?

 

[user 6228]

You don't have to, but I do: less work & less disturbance, but then I use upturned Abelo Ashforth feeders to eke the fondant, so insulation above the fondant & nest is adequate for longer. Still have to heft and add more if necessary.


Good to know, but for practical ease, it's quicker to slap the PIR on the board inside the rim. Much lost or gained?

Wonder how Lizzie is getting on?

its nearly as good as 5mm of PIR

 

[pargyle]

Before you all get to La La Land a bit of advice please... I recently placed a 12.5kg slab of fondant on a QE direct on top of the top frames. I put an eke on and filled the gap with loose insulation in a polythene bag before adding a crown board and an insulated gabled roof.
So when the fondant is gone ( eaten and/or moved) if I wait for a warmish day, can I safely remove the QE and loose insulation and replace them with a clear polycarbonate quilt with PIR with a feeder window in it to give them more fondant if or when required? Presumably I don't have to leave everything as it is now until spring?
K

Sorry ... we descended into Lala Land and your question seems to have got left behind.

1. Had you been feeding your colony prior to putting the fondant on ?
2. What sort of level of stores did they have before you put the fondant one ?

What I'm saying is ... did they need this amount to top them up ?

I'd be a bit concerned if you had just put the fondant on the queen excluder - is it wrapped ? If it's soft you might find it dripping down through the QE and into the frames .. as sheet of baking parchment with some incisions in it will help stop that happening and the bees will easily find their way into it.

I'd be equally concerned if you have put a polythene bag filled with 'loose insulation' where the bees can get at it as the bees seem to delight in tearing into polythene and whatever is inside it. I would put the insulation above the crownboard on top of the eke.

You can disturb bees at any time if you have to do something but it does not help them - more so now as they will have sealed everything up with propolis. If they are heavy and you want to replace what you have with a different set up then sooner rather than later would be my advice.

For the future: Think about feeding them syrup (I use Invertbee) a bit earlier and use fondant only as a top up in the spring if they are light. then you won't have to disturb them.

A polycarbonate crown board is lovely in winter .. close up the feeder hole until or if it is needed, insulation (even your polybag) on top of the crowboard will keep them toasty. Just out of interest - why didn't you use the clear crownboard on top of your eke ?

 

[Vanterrier]

Haha... thanks for your answers

I reported elsewhere on here Post in thread 'Ejecting Larvae' Ejecting Larvae
that despite feeding with 2:1 syrup during october, when I hefted ( not experienced hefter) I could lift with one finger!
Advice given then was "feed them asap" with more syrup. I didn't have syrup nor sugar to make any but did have fondant and was advised to slap this on over a QE. I have read since about greaseproof paper but too late. I placed it direct on the QE, with the blue plastic removed from the base but still wrapped around the top.
The "loose insulation" in the bag is mainly old fleece from polar jacket and a couple of squares of underlay composite foam.
To correct my previous description, I did refit the clear polycarbonate quilt over the eke before fitting the frameless CB then the insulated roof, so I could take a look at what's going on.
My main concern was to give them some feed quickly so with more time I might have fitted instead a piece of 100mm thick kingspan above the poly quilt Inside the eke with a window cut out for a plastic container containing fondant.
That is what I would change to if I found they had moved the fondant already.
But, I was concerned about going in again so soon and about how difficult it may be to remove the QE quickly. Although having watched the BMH YouTube of how to feed fondant in winter and seeing how long Lawrence took made me feel a bit happier.
Hefting is not precise enough for me yet so I have developed a luggage scale pivoting lever lift device to get a more consistent reading. (I can detail this if it is of any interest tto anyone...?)
I think I will make the change to the feed arrangement as above as soon as the weather allows - another storm tomorrow...
Thanks again and apologies for the lengthy reply
K

 

[pargyle]

Haha... thanks for your answers

I reported elsewhere on here Post in thread 'Ejecting Larvae' Ejecting Larvae
that despite feeding with 2:1 syrup during october, when I hefted ( not experienced hefter) I could lift with one finger!
Advice given then was "feed them asap" with more syrup. I didn't have syrup nor sugar to make any but did have fondant and was advised to slap this on over a QE. I have read since about greaseproof paper but too late. I placed it direct on the QE, with the blue plastic removed from the base but still wrapped around the top.
The "loose insulation" in the bag is mainly old fleece from polar jacket and a couple of squares of underlay composite foam.
To correct my previous description, I did refit the clear polycarbonate quilt over the eke before fitting the frameless CB then the insulated roof, so I could take a look at what's going on.
My main concern was to give them some feed quickly so with more time I might have fitted instead a piece of 100mm thick kingspan above the poly quilt Inside the eke with a window cut out for a plastic container containing fondant.
That is what I would change to if I found they had moved the fondant already.
But, I was concerned about going in again so soon and about how difficult it may be to remove the QE quickly. Although having watched the BMH YouTube of how to feed fondant in winter and seeing how long Lawrence took made me feel a bit happier.
Hefting is not precise enough for me yet so I have developed a luggage scale pivoting lever lift device to get a more consistent reading. (I can detail this if it is of any interest tto anyone...?)
I think I will make the change to the feed arrangement as above as soon as the weather allows - another storm tomorrow...
Thanks again and apologies for the lengthy reply
K

Ahh ... not too bad then ... with a bit of luck the fondant will have all gone and be stored for winter and it will be an easy and quick job to get things in order. Let us know.

I just have a big screw eye on each side of my stands (not all of them these days as I heft usually) and just hooked a length if cord through them and weighed each side of the hive and stand with a luggage scale and took an average. It might not be the true weight but it gives a 'weight' which you can track through the season. (Only works, of course, if you have individual hive stands and the legs are not set in the ground.

Post your lever arrangement in a new thread .. always good to get a new slant on things. We can all benefit from a different idea.

There's a Forum section here:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/forums/beehive-diy-building-discussion-forum.5/

 

[Vanterrier]

Aye, thanks, will do...

K

Have done

 

[jimmiestan]

For the future: Think about feeding them syrup (I use Invertbee) a bit earlier and use fondant only as a top up in the spring if they are light. then you won't have to disturb them.

We've been feeding fondant for a few weeks now here in Cromarty as they turned up their noses at our home made syrup [maybe it was due to the plastic milk bottles its kept in? -- we've now got ambrosia syrup from excellent local supplier near Inverness -- haven't syrupped them yet though as they're loving the fondant and a little of the fondabee we have left. Bea was bringing in loads of yellow pollen yesterday [9*C but sunny] -- the ivy seems +/- finished.
Is it a mishstake to use fondant then? Or is it a bit costly ££?

Jim + Lorna

 

[Newbeeneil]

We've been feeding fondant for a few weeks now here in Cromarty as they turned up their noses at our home made syrup -- we've now got ambrosia syrup from excellent local supplier near Inverness -- haven't syrupped them yet though as they're loving the fondant and a little of the fondabee we have left. Bea was bringing in loads of yellow pollen yesterday [9*C but sunny] -- the ivy seems +/- finished.
Is it a mishstake to use fondant then? Or is it a bit costly ££?

Jim + Lorna

I have been using fondant exclusively for the last 2 years with no problems. I find that the bees don’t seem to crowd out the queen so much as they seem to take longer to store it.
I’m paying £1.18/kg which is not much more that sugar at the moment and without the hassle of mixing syrup and driving it all around the country side with gallons of water in the van.

 

[Murox]

We've been feeding fondant for a few weeks now here in Cromarty as they turned up their noses at our home made syrup -- we've now got ambrosia syrup from excellent local supplier near Inverness -- haven't syrupped them yet though as they're loving the fondant and a little of the fondabee we have left. Bea was bringing in loads of yellow pollen yesterday [9*C but sunny] -- the ivy seems +/- finished.
Is it a mishstake to use fondant then? Or is it a bit costly ££?

Jim + Lorna

Like @Newbeeneil said bees do fine on fondant. Mine have had fondant since the beginning of September no issues.. The apiarist wrote a relevant article about feeding fondant.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I’m paying £1.18/kg which is not much more that sugar at the moment and without the hassle of mixing syrup and driving it all around the country side with gallons of water in the van.

That's a really good price - £14.75 for 12.5kg blocks if that's what you got. Do you mind telling us where you got it? Did you have to make a huge order?

 

[Newbeeneil]

That's a really good price - £14.75 for 12.5kg blocks if that's what you got. Do you mind telling us where you got it? Did you have to make a huge order?

I don’t mind saying it’s from BAKO, takes a bit of negotiation but that is the price I pay for a minimum for free delivery of £150 (11 boxes) if I could take a full pallet I think it’s about a quid cheaper per box.