First inspection and brood in super

[Marilyn J]

Did my first inspection yesterday. Very little in the way of stores so I'd like to feed with sugar syrup. However, I left a super on over winter and now there is brood on a couple of frames in the super. I don't really want to go for brood and a half. Can I move the super frames containing brood temporarily into the brood box, take off the super and then feed them?

 

[Sutty]

Yes, but they will likely build wild comb under the shallow frames in the brood box and fill it with brood too - you will then need to move it to the edge as the season progresses to get it out of the brood box. It also depends on having some relatively empty brood frames but I guess you have if you're planning to feed.
Still a bit cool where I am to mess much with them though.
You could consider nadiring the super and then feeding, in the hope that it will be pretty empty in 3 weeks, then retrieve it and place over a queen excluder.

 

[jarmo henttu]

Did my first inspection yesterday. Very little in the way of stores so I'd like to feed with sugar syrup. However, I left a super on over winter and now there is brood on a couple of frames in the super. I don't really want to go for brood and a half. Can I move the super frames containing brood temporarily into the brood box, take off the super and then feed them?

You leave the brood box this way and when brood emerge during the summer, bees fill combs with honey.

It is not a problem if you do not want to make it such. First brood frames are the most important to the colony.

 

[Sutty]

You leave the brood box this way and when brood emerge during the summer, bees fill combs with honey.

It is not a problem if you do not want to make it such. First brood frames are the most important to the colony.

I think the OP may be wanting to avoid having a super full of syrup.

 

[Marilyn J]

I think the OP may be wanting to avoid having a super full of syrup.

Exactly! I was just thinking of moving the super frames (it's only a couple) until they've taken some sugar syrup down into the brood box, then I'd put the super back above a queen excluder. It's around 10 - 12 degrees here.
If I put some fondant in the brood box are they likely to take that up into the super?

 

[Sutty]

Exactly! I was just thinking of moving the super frames (it's only a couple) until they've taken some sugar syrup down into the brood box, then I'd put the super back above a queen excluder. It's around 10 - 12 degrees here.
If I put some fondant in the brood box are they likely to take that up into the super?

They will put stores around the brood nest, mainly in an arc above it. As the brood nest is intruding into the super they will put stores in the super. I think the best thing is to nadir it - minimum disturbance, then feed.

 

[Marilyn J]

They will put stores around the brood nest, mainly in an arc above it. As the brood nest is intruding into the super they will put stores in the super. I think the best thing is to nadir it - minimum disturbance, then feed.

OK, thanks for that. Looks like that is the only solution. The forecast is for 12 - 13 degrees tomorrow so I'll do it then.

 

[Wilco]

If you nadir the shallow, make sure the Q isn't in the shallow and put a QE between the shallow and the deep so when the brood that's there has emerged it doesn't get replenished.

 

[Marilyn J]

If you nadir the shallow, make sure the Q isn't in the shallow and put a QE between the shallow and the deep so when the brood that's there has emerged it doesn't get replenished.

Thanks for the reminder

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

depends how much brood there is, and more importantly, how many bees there are, you are ostensibly splitting the brood into two separate areas.

 

[Marilyn J]

depends how much brood there is, and more importantly, how many bees there are, you are ostensibly splitting the brood into two separate areas.

Small amounts of brood on 2 or 3 frames in the super, maybe 2 frames in the brood box. Small colony. Virtually no stores in the brood box so I'd like to get give them some help with sugar syrup.

 

[ericbeaumont]

super on over winter

Next year, leave it under.

What is in flower this week? Feed only if nothing is coming in. Heed JBM's advice: if you nadir, the colony will need enough bees to fill the gap between the BB brood & super brood.

15C where you are by the weekend; I would shake the super bees into the BB, nadir the whole super+QX, and in 3 weeks put it back on top. If you must feed, give fondant.

Advantage of nadiring is that the small nest will be in the warmest spot, under the CB (which I pray is closed and insulated).

 

[Sutty]

Also if you nadir keep the orientation of the boxes the same so the super frames with brood are directly below the brood frames with brood so the nest is split as little as possible.
A solid floor (or board in and sealed off) plus a small entrance to keep them as warm as possible.

 

[Erichalfbee]

2 or 3 frames in the super, maybe 2 frames in the brood box.

Then I would remove the super ( but check for eggs) and put the super frames in the brood. I have a couple in mine and they are 14x12. Just work them out in the season.

 

[Marilyn J]

Hawthorn, gorse, 2 large cherry trees, dandelions and celandine. They are pretty busy right now so I think I'll leave them alone. Probably the less interference the better.

 

[Sutty]

Another alternative, which may be better with such a small nest, would be to leave them in current configuration, feed with fondant (or syrup if they will take it, (they may not if not warm enough), then wait until they have built up more before nadiring as above.
"Almost no stores" is worrying.

 

[jarmo henttu]

I think the OP may be wanting to avoid having a super full of syrup.

It is another problem, if super is full of sugar.
Brood in super is nothing problem.
It is good that you have brood after winter.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Then I would remove the super ( but check for eggs) and put the super frames in the brood. I have a couple in mine and they are 14x12. Just work them out in the season.

a far more sensible approach if you are determined to avoid sugar in the super, especially as it looks like they have too much space as it is.

Hawthorn, gorse, 2 large cherry trees, dandelions and celandine. They are pretty busy right now so I think I'll leave them alone. Probably the less interference the better.

would probably what I would do, and if you must feed, don't fiddle with fondant, just give them a few pints of 1:.1 syrup, or, as you have three colonies, pinch some stores from another.
If nothing else, this is a salutary lesson on the wisdom (I use the word in the widest possible sense) of leaving a super on for the winter.

 

[ericbeaumont]

think I'll leave them alone. Probably the less interference the better

Fair enough, and it would be no big deal if you were to leave it there all season; add more - with or without a QX - and by the end of summer the tops will be full of honey and the bottom with brood and pollen.

Dani's suggestion at post 14 is neat: by condensing the colony and reducing the volume you will reduce bees' work to thermoregulate the nest; the resulting efficiency will aid colony expansion. It would take ten minutes to take out a few empty brood combs, slot in the super broods and shake in the bees.

Let us know how it pans out.

 

[Sutty]

Personally I hate trying to work those frames with wild comb out of the nest because I get them to outside but they aren't left empty, and you have to be so gentle examining them.