Strike ?

[jimbeekeeper]

WELL SAID Nomadickarl

 

[stilllearning]

blimey.... someones stirred up a hornets nest !!
I'm healthy and happy and do a job i look forward to doing each day

you come into this world with nothing and you go out with nothing !!
so whats the point in worrying about it

 

[jimbeekeeper]

My wife is a teacher she get good holidays yes, but spends many many hours marking and preparing work supposedly in her time off. When she is in work she also spends many hours at home at the end of the day marking yet more paperwork. So unless you live with a teacher or are one it is very easy to criticise when on the out side, when you dont have a clue what they actually do in their own time.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Do you really want your children/grandchildren being taught by a teacher who is 67/68 having been working for 46 years with 12/13/14/15/16/17 year old.

That is my wife's main concern. But as I tell her, we will both be able to retire early on my pension alone, and then when hers finally kicks in it will be a bonus.

 

[Jordy]

Not just teachers in this. The government are using propaganda to lead people to believe all civil servants are on massive wages then retire on massive pensions. Thousands of these people are women on £15,000 per year or less, also pay taxes like the private sector, have been on a pay freeze for the last 2 years or more & will not retire on mega-pensions. The police & fire services are treated like 'demi-gods', retiring at a reasonably young age, from fabulous wages onto gold plated pensions. Prison officers are also cicil servants who haven't had a wage rise in 3 years, were given 50% LESS pay rise than the rest of the civil service for 4 years previous to that & retire from threats, abuse, beatings, scalds, stabbings, spit & excrement missiles at 60 to a moderate pension of about £9000 per year after 30+ years. They want to add 6 more years to this.
At 65 years old, would YOU want to face these people on a daily basis? I think not!

 

[peteinwilts]

WELL SAID Nomadickarl

i can't see a lot there that doesn't apply to the majority of the private sector. stressful maybe, I do not deny it may be hard... but still a chosen career path.
I do long hours (often all night), suffer from the tongues of angry customers, have to manage dimwits that want to do nothing but self destruct their equipment... but this is my chosen career path and do not complain.

Most companys don't have a pension scheme. I have worked in my companys over the last 30 years and only one (in the 80's) offered a company pension plan.
I am in my mid 40's and do not have a pension. I chose to invest instead.
I will probably work till I drop. With people getting older, the pension is little more than a pyramid scheme and by the time I am old enough, I do not believe there will be a retirement age regardless.

I had a day at my daughters school a few months ago and was presented with a powerpoint presention on a projector in assembly. Bad grammer and spelling mistakes in a presentation saying how good the school is. After going to some classroom sessions, some of the teachers were very good at what they teach, but to expand further than what they teach on the same subject (but still nothing less than what I learnt a school) and they didn't have a clue. I guess this is another difference to younger teachers and older teachers. Older ones have experience.

I saw street interviews with the protests that some teachers were blaming the bankers... most people with more than half a brain cell knows that the bankers culture is not the cause. (just not particularly fair)

short hours for many although understand some preperation does happen 'out of hours'....apparently.. my daughter was one and two years behind her cousins and covered exactly the same topics year on year.

long holidays... as the schools are about to close for 6 weeks.

teacher 'training' days. last year I took a day off from work BECAUSE of a teacher training day. I took my daughter to westonburt auboritum and bumped into two of the teachers also having a day out.
On the way home I saw another teacher gardening.
Companys in the private sector have to balance training with work. It would be so nice if we could shut the company to do training...

it may seem unfair with the way the teachers feel they are being treated. they are having the perks taken away that most of the private sector had taken away years ago.
IMHO this should have been done years ago, but gradually. in line with everyone else.

do i feel sorry for the teachers... a little maybe. the balance is only being redressed.
I paid £30 for a child minder today and had to go to work late and come home early. Do they feel sorry for me or the millions of others that had to do similar.. not a hope.
A private sector strike to upset a companys balance sheet is one thing...This strike was done purposefully to disrupt the common person financially and their day to day life, which also disrupts children doing exams. If it were not, the protests would have occurred during school holidays, got more support and would have shown the teachers actually give a damn.

If I don't like my company terms and conditions, I get another job.

Teachers and public sector workers striking as they want better perks than everyone else, bankers bonuses, politicians voting for pay rises, electric and gas prices rising by 20%, high fuel prices, ADDITIONAL BABYSITTING CHARGES... but don't worry.. "we are all in it together"...

... bulsh*t!

 

[garethbryson]

Thought I was the only one!! just wish I could strike!! Unions werent there for me whenI was made redundant and employers changed figure after stating one figure.

They have jobs that are paid above the min wage, so If they dont like it. . . leave!

Rant over

Im back out to the bees!

So if you were offered a job by them you would turn it down, right???

 

[peteinwilts]

So if you were offered a job by them you would turn it down, right???

surely that depends on the persons circumstance. If I had no job, I would take any job to keep a roof over my family.

Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Low paid jobs are the same. If a company is offering a job at an ultra low wage, when no one goes for it they have to put the wage up until someone does.

If someone does go for the job, then that job is worth that wage.

If you had a business would you pay £20 an hour to someone when you can get an equally skilled person to do it for £10 an hour.

simple economics.

 

[garethbryson]

surely that depends on the persons circumstance. If I had no job, I would take any job to keep a roof over my family.
Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Low paid jobs are the same. If a company is offering a job at an ultra low wage, when no one goes for it they have to put the wage up until someone does.

If someone does go for the job, then that job is worth that wage.

If you had a business would you pay £20 an hour to someone when you can get an equally skilled person to do it for £10 an hour.

simple economics.

Thats exactly what the teachers are trying to do!!!!!

 

[Dishmop]

I stopped working when I was 60. Been self employed most of my life. Never saved anything.. Spent it all and enjoyed it... No pension until I am 65. Luckily one of the last ones to be able to get a bus pass at 60 and also get my NI contributions paid as does everybody who has worked for so many years.. I hear people whinging that thay "have saved up all my life, invested some money and now the interst rate has gone down I am having to dip into my savings" Well, what were they saving for if not for the day when they needed it. They save it and never want to spend it.
There will be nothing to leave for my kids "inheritence" Sod that. They each earn more than we do put together, so if they havent sorted themselves out by the time I die that aint my fault.
Norwich teachers strike today was coincidently already designated as a teacher training day because they close the schools so the kids can go the the Royal Norfolk Show.

 

[drstitson]

NHS workers (the group of biggest public sector employees) have already (as of 2008) "accepted" modified pension along the lines suggested for all (increased contribs, increased retirement age and career averaging rather than final salary).

although must admit justification for career averaging at time was bogus - i don't know how many NHS staff downshift grades in years prior to retirement - go part time maybe but not reduce FTE salary.

any old pension is protected after changes if imposed.

other public sector workers must accept that for same pension private savers would need to contribute a massive/unaffordable proportion of take home pay.

if you wish to retire early there is nothing to stop you making EXTRA provision at own expense (tax deductible).

both state and public sector pensions were set up when most people dropped dead within 5-10 years of retiring at 60 or so. many of the people out on the streets today are likelly to live into their 80s and beyond.

 

[Haughton Honey]

I was privately educated, served as an army officer for eight years (four in the specials), worked in IT for the next twelve years and in the family's property development business for the last last five. Busy at the moment? No, not really.

However, I have never, ever paid someone else to take my hard-earned money only to lose it for me with unit-linked/cautiously-managed/high-risk/fixed interest/prudent/eastern exposure funds.......!

I'd rather invest it myself thanks.

 

[viridens]

NHS workers (the group of biggest public sector employees) have already (as of 2008) "accepted" modified pension along the lines suggested for all (increased contribs, increased retirement age and career averaging rather than final salary).

although must admit justification for career averaging at time was bogus - i don't know how many NHS staff downshift grades in years prior to retirement - go part time maybe but not reduce FTE salary.

*any old pension is protected after changes if imposed.

other public sector workers must accept that for same pension private savers would need to contribute a massive/unaffordable proportion of take home pay.

if you wish to retire early there is nothing to stop you making EXTRA provision at own expense (tax deductible).

*both state and public sector pensions were set up when most people dropped dead within 5-10 years of retiring at 60 or so. many of the people out on the streets today are likelly to live into their 80s and beyond.

I must take issue with you on the two points starred above.

Firstly, 'old' pension is not protected, its value will be drastically eroded by the change in linkage to the lesser CPI, a retrospective change to scheme rules which was imposed and not negotiated.

Secondly, I celebrate the fact that pensioners no longer drop dead soon after retiring.
Clearly, this survival after working has been a progressive improvement, not a sudden phenomenon. It is not the fault of pensioners if successive government 'experts' got their sums wrong and now decide that pensioners must be short-changed as a remedy for their mistakes.
Further changes for new entrants and young pension scheme members can be negotiated to remedy the apparent 'shortfall', but surely natural justice suggests that those already retired and those about to do so have a right to expect the rules of the pension scheme to which they contributed in good faith should be honoured?

I note that HM government is working hard to cast public sector pensioners as 'gold plated' parasites on society for expecting HM government to follow through with what was agreed.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I think we are missing the wood for the trees here.
I think most people feel sympathy for the teachers and other public sector workers. But, I also think they teachers et al should not over-do the "my job is so difficult" bit - join the club.
The problem here is the unions making political capital out of a genuine greivance. They have called a strike way too early in the negotiating process because they want to bring Cameron down. They know that parents having to take successive days off work to look after their kids will harm the governments reputation.
And, whether you support the current govt or not, you should be very wary of the unions motives here. Let's not forget they are the ones who helped prop Gordon up for so many years whilst he steered us into this iceberg.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

remember the 1980's, the unions lost then - this is an opportunity for Cameron to smash another powerful union (isn't there a bit of aggro about the Falklands brewing up as well?)

 

[nottingham]

remember the 1980's, the unions lost then - this is an opportunity for Cameron to smash another powerful union (isn't there a bit of aggro about the Falklands brewing up as well?)

The only public sector worker, that make this country a profit are the Teachers but they work for Her Majesty's Government NOT Richard Branson. So if they want a 30k a year pension as a public sector worker then they are clearly in the wrong job!

 

[hedgerow pete]

being a child of the thatcher era and having seen some of the running battles the miners did to each other let alone what the police did to everyone, the best thing she ever did was to break the miners, she had no choice when she first came in with the winter of discontent, but that only served to had the lady stand fast next time they tried it.

i do hope cameron does the same, teachers are not that important to deserve special treatment, i would rather see the money go some where usefull like the ambalence people or nurses ( sod the doctors) people who realy do , do a massively under rated job

 

[Jordy]

We often blame the banks for the state of the economy but Government spending certainly contributes to that, Below are some eye watering sums that could be deemed as waste.

£26 Billion wasted on computer blunders

£18 Billion wasted on National ID cards-now scraped

£76 Billion on Trident Nuclear Missiles System

£5 Billion lost in bad Gold deals

£17 Billion unnecessary High Speed Rail Link which would reduce travel time by only 20minutes from Manchester to London.

£1 Billion (approx) State of the art Emergency Control Rooms, which are currently sat empty at a cost of £40,000 per day.

£50 Million Criminal Asset Recovery - Recovered so far = £8 Million

Foreign Aid Budget:

Currently £8.4 Billion set to increase to £12.6 Billion

Wars:

Libya War £260 Million

Afghanistan War £3 billion

Membership of the EU: Currently £65 Billion

Cost of bailing out the Euro (that we didn't convert to) £22 Billion with no guarantee we will get this money back.


The shortfall in Public sector Pensions currently stands at £2.29 Billion - small change compared to some of those figures above. The reason Public Sector Pensions are set to spiral out of control is because jobs are being farmed out to the Private Sector, so in coming years there will be fewer people paying in to the scheme hence the spirialing costs.

Whose fault is that????

 

[dpearce4]

being a child of the thatcher era and having seen some of the running battles the miners did to each other let alone what the police did to everyone, the best thing she ever did was to break the miners, she had no choice when she first came in with the winter of discontent, but that only served to had the lady stand fast next time they tried it.

i do hope cameron does the same, teachers are not that important to deserve special treatment, i would rather see the money go some where usefull like the ambalence people or nurses ( sod the doctors) people who realy do , do a massively under rated job

Very Daily Mail views shame they are rubbish like the paper.

 

[hedgerow pete]

what can i say i love maggie, the only politician with balls they used to say, lol