Some advice please - cbpv?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks Dani, JBM
Will be trying the open floor stand today. Is it likely the queen has died as well ? Will have a look for her but would be good to know what to expect. As for the stores/supers what do you suggest doing? They are heavy boxes but not capped.
Thanks

the queen is usually the last to go, it may affect her future performance when they recover, but that's a bridge to cross later. Leave the supers on for now until you know exactly what's happening

 

[LeaBees]

the queen is usually the last to go, it may affect her future performance when they recover, but that's a bridge to cross later. Leave the supers on for now until you know exactly what's happening

Another small complication - this is a wbc hive. With this stand experiment I'm going to have to leave them without the lifts over the boxes. They'll be access proof against robbing/wasps and weather warm enough to be ok is my thinking. Should be ok right?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Another small complication - this is a wbc hive. With this stand experiment I'm going to have to leave them without the lifts over the boxes. They'll be access proof against robbing/wasps and weather warm enough to be ok is my thinking. Should be ok right?

I think you may have to jury rig something, this weather though you should be OK for a while

 

[KittyB]

I had three colonies with CPBV last year. I did some research and decided to shake out the bees of the one that was most severely affected and re-queen. I am not saying this was the right thing to do, but I was following the advice I was given. There are so many differing opinions in beekeeping and it's never easy knowing which bit if advice is correct. Basically, I took a gamble.
The colony survived and thanks to the Carnolian queen is now very strong ; the two colonies that had mild cases and had no intervention are also fully recovered.
So, it's hard to say which was the correct course of action, but as usual, the bees are the experts.

 

[Robert Denny]

I had a colony with CBPV last year which we we split to prevent swarming. The hive with old queen recovered but went down with it as numbers grew. The hive with the new queen never showed any signs of it. I think some queens are less prone to it than others.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I had three colonies with CPBV last year. I did some research and decided to shake out the bees of the one that was most severely affected and re-queen. I am not saying this was the right thing to do, but I was following the advice I was given. There are so many differing opinions in beekeeping and it's never easy knowing which bit if advice is correct. Basically, I took a gamble.
The colony survived and thanks to the Carnolian queen is now very strong ; the two colonies that had mild cases and had no intervention are also fully recovered.
So, it's hard to say which was the correct course of action, but as usual, the bees are the experts.

But it's now widely accepted that shaking them out is definitely not the solution - in fact, quite the opposite, so It's something I would never contemplate

 

[Erichalfbee]

Shaking out is what was done in ignorant desperation. Times move on. DON’T shake out.
Why would anybody say that when it’s been made quite clear earlier in the thread that you don’t do that?

 

[LeaBees]

I think you may have to jury rig something, this weather though you should be OK for a while

Was up late jury-rigging a national stand as an open floor stand and just been out to re-assemble. I've attached images of what it looks like, but as I said they are wbc boxes which I hope will be ok through most weather. Also took a shot of the screen floor immediately after removing BBox which I didnt think was bad as far as dead-fall is concerned. Rearranged supers so empty one directly above BBox and QX. Went through the BBox - eggs and queen seen (no abnormal behaviour noticed) though none of the usual retinue surrounding her. As mentioned, supers heavy and some frames partly capped. Cleared up dead bees around hive (into compost heap).

Wbc boxes (with a roof on) should be ok without lifts till it gets cold right? I understand there isn't emperical evidence to support this hive setup for cbpv, but how long should I expect this for, assuming they will make it? What should I be doing in terms of management from here?

Thanks again all.

 

[KittyB]

Shaking out is what was done in ignorant desperation. Times move on. DON’T shake out.
Why would anybody say that when it’s been made quite clear earlier in the thread that you don’t do that?

That's a charming response to my post. You should be commended for your balanced, non-judgemental attitude. I'm sure you are the very apotheosis of a beekeeper and I hope everybody who reads your posts learns a great deal from every nugget of wisdom that issues forth from your venerable
keyboard.

 

[JohnRB]

Yes I can see trembling bees
Is there any way you can move the colony away from the apiary? That would be ideal but don’t panic if you can’t.
Some people might disagree but it’s doesn’t easily spread from hive to hive. CBPV is spread by contact and housekeeper bees get infected by dragging the sick bees out.
1. Give them more space. A super above the brood will help.
2. Minimise housekeeper/ sick bee contact.
If you can prevent the house bees tidying up they may stand a chance
What I have discussed with JBM who first mentioned it and what I have seen a friend do might, just might work.
Have the colony on an open hive stand and remove the floor so that sick bees just drop to the ground
You need to make sure they are not robbed so do something like this

View attachment 27295

I was recently inspected by the SBI and one of my colonies had a mild case of CBPV. He recommended exactly this. Remove the floor so the brood box is directly on the stand. Infected bees fall straight down onto the ground and don't have to be dragged over the floor and out by worker bees. The theory is that by removing the contact between undertaker bees and infected bees the infection is not passed on so easily. Leave like that for 10 days then put a clean floor back. I did this and it cleared up completely as far as I can tell and hasn't come back.

Edit to add, don't forget to sweep up and remove the dead bees

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's a charming response to my post. You should be commended for your balanced, non-judgemental attitude. I'm sure you are the very apotheosis of a beekeeper and I hope everybody who reads your posts learns a great deal from every nugget of wisdom that issues forth from your venerable
keyboard.

bad advice is bad advice, and needs to be highlighted regardless of whether you sprinkle it with sugar or drape a bit of tinsel over it

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's a charming response to my post. You should be commended for your balanced, non-judgemental attitude. I'm sure you are the very apotheosis of a beekeeper and I hope everybody who reads your posts learns a great deal from every nugget of wisdom that issues forth from your venerable
keyboard.

My point was that correct treatment has been signposted already and in that were instructions to NOT shake out.
Then you posted that you shook out and didn’t know whether that was the right advice or not.
Did you read the rest of the thread before you posted?
This is a serious issue.
This disease is becoming more and more common

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was recently inspected by the SBI and one of my colonies had a mild case of CBPV. He recommended exactly this. Remove the floor so the brood box is directly on the stand. Infected bees fall straight down onto the ground and don't have to be dragged over the floor and out by worker bees. The theory is that by removing the contact between undertaker bees and infected bees the infection is not passed on so easily. Leave like that for 10 days then put a clean floor back. I did this and it cleared up completely as far as I can tell and hasn't come back.

Edit to add, don't forget to sweep up and remove the dead bees

That’s brilliant. I think if you keep your eye on the ball and catch it early you stand a very good chance of helping the colony over it

 

[LeaBees]

That’s brilliant. I think if you keep your eye on the ball and catch it early you stand a very good chance of helping the colony over it

 

[LeaBees]

I was recently inspected by the SBI and one of my colonies had a mild case of CBPV. He recommended exactly this. Remove the floor so the brood box is directly on the stand. Infected bees fall straight down onto the ground and don't have to be dragged over the floor and out by worker bees. The theory is that by removing the contact between undertaker bees and infected bees the infection is not passed on so easily. Leave like that for 10 days then put a clean floor back. I did this and it cleared up completely as far as I can tell and hasn't come back.

Edit to add, don't forget to sweep up and remove the dead bees

John,
Do you mean sweep up and remove dead bees from under the floor-less stand regularly over those 10 days?

 

[KittyB]

My point was that correct treatment has been signposted already and in that were instructions to NOT shake out.
Then you posted that you shook out and didn’t know whether that was the right advice or not.
Did you read the rest of the thread before you posted?
This is a serious issue.
This disease is becoming more and more common

I did read the thread before posting and I am perfectly well aware of how serious an issue it is. I like to know the methodology before proceeding, especially when it comes to taking advice from random people on beekeeping forums. Your DO NOT SHAKE order was rammed home, but without any explanation as to why. I simply reported my experience, and if the anecdotal evidence of the resulting heathy colonies doesn't fit in with your angry diktat then my bees clearly haven't read the memo.
The passive aggressive nature of these forums is so counter productive, and as a moderator I would have thought you might have noted my observation and then explained why shaking out is such a bad thing instead of fulminating at me.
As I have already said, the bees are the experts here and maybe we could learn a lot more from them if we observed more and pontificated less.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I did read the thread before posting and I am perfectly well aware of how serious an issue it is. I like to know the methodology before proceeding, especially when it comes to taking advice from random people on beekeeping forums.

Which is obviously what you did when you decided to shake yours out.
The vain attempt to shake CBPV infected colonies out was something discussed on random internet fora in the past and it was quickly accepted that it was a rather futile act, often being the final nail in the coffin for a badly infected colony. Also, with all those confused and distressed bees scattered around it could actually help spread the virus. This new method is still very much in the 'experimental' stage but has shown widespread success thus far and is being closely monitored by many RBIs

 

[JohnRB]

John,
Do you mean sweep up and remove dead bees from under the floor-less stand regularly over those 10 days?

Yes, that is correct

 

[Erichalfbee]

I did read the thread before posting and I am perfectly well aware of how serious an issue it is. I like to know the methodology before proceeding, especially when it comes to taking advice from random people on beekeeping forums. Your DO NOT SHAKE order was rammed home, but without any explanation as to why. I simply reported my experience, and if the anecdotal evidence of the resulting heathy colonies doesn't fit in with your angry diktat then my bees clearly haven't read the memo.
The passive aggressive nature of these forums is so counter productive, and as a moderator I would have thought you might have noted my observation and then explained why shaking out is such a bad thing instead of fulminating at me.
As I have already said, the bees are the experts here and maybe we could learn a lot more from them if we observed more and pontificated less.

In the early stages of infection when bees can still fly they lose their sense of direction. They risk flying into other colonies and you are merely spreading disease.
Thhs has been known and discouraged for at least a couple of years. I have had two confrontations with CBPV. The first in 2015 when I did indeed throw the bees up into the air, as I said down to my desperate ignorance ( lots of other people were similarly ignorant at the time) Bee farmers, with their heads in a better place, took a more sensible approach and having moved their colonies away left them to it and some survived. Last year it appeared again after I split a colony for swarm management and the colony was destroyed. The queen survived and this is her colony this afternoon

 

[Erichalfbee]

the bees are the experts.

I think a lot of us here would completely disagree. It’s a favourite social media tag line like “ save the bees”