So what's the problem with Oxalic Acid then?

[Repwoc]

Earlier on I wrote a bit saying OA isn't as bad as some might think - but I must say that evaporating it does scare me. Washing dilute OA off skin or even out of eyes is one thing, but getting it out of your lungs after inhaling it is quite a different matter.

 

[RoofTops]

Quite, it is a practice from the Dark Ages but is still going on unfortunately.

The beekeeper thinks they have the perfect way but is completely oblivious to the long term health issues - to them, not the bees.

 

[Arfermo]

I know we don't yet have ccd....but they seem advise not to use oxalic.


5. If you observe high levels of varroa mites, treat them using soft chemicals, such as Apiguard, Apilife VAR, or MiteAway II. We DO NOT recommend the use of oxalic acid, or home made hard chemical mixtures.

Why? Colonies experiencing CCD have been shown to have kidney (Malpighian tubule) problems similar to those seen in colonies treated with hard chemicals. There are some reports that Oxalic acid may damage bee Malpighian tubules. Also the harder chemicals (fluvalinate, coumaphos, and amitraz) may have a sub lethal affect on bees which may add additional stress on the bees. By treating for varroa mites with soft chemicals, you are helping to keep the colonies mite population low while avoiding the potentially negative effects of hard chemicals.
This document was released on March 7 2007 and prepared by Dennis vanEngelsdorp, M. Frazier, and D. Caron at the direction of the CCD working group.

Apiguard etc ineffective in mid winter and not to be recommended if one wants any honey in season!! Not clear who the they are "but they seem advise not to use oxalic." Please elucidate. At a recent FERA lecture I attended, oxalic was recommended. It isn't approved but the it isn't banned either!!! Just have a look at the FERA leaflet on "Managing Varroa".

 

[Finman]

.
On ccd area hives have brood over the winter and trickling does not work.

 

[MuswellMetro]

So for those of you who won't use OA, what do you use? Or what methods do you use?

Isn't Apivar and other types of this treatment used for varroa? So why do you need to treat with so many things?

as prevois post Lactic Acid, but it ain't so good trying oxalic on finmans advice this year , a freind is doing one hive for me

apivar is not licenced in UK and is a quite nasty chemical which evetually the mites will become resistant to

Thymol based treatment like Api Var lite, apiguard do nott work in cold weather, so as you kill most of the mites when they are brood less , ie all mite are on the bees, you need a winter treament Oxalic or lactic or formic acids

 

[Rosti]

Earlier on I wrote a bit saying OA isn't as bad as some might think - but I must say that evaporating it does scare me. Washing dilute OA off skin or even out of eyes is one thing, but getting it out of your lungs after inhaling it is quite a different matter.

Absolutely agree with the above!
Some 3.2% in syrup on the otherhand, lovingly administered on boxing day, brisk walk to hives, tot of whisky in a hip flask, surely that is obligatory beek tradition! (and given they are broodless it's a very well targeted treatment and I'm not aware that it puts a hive at risk when 5ml per seem of bees)

 

[Hivemaker.]

Arfermo, if you read the writing on the post right to the bottom, you can see who the "they" are.

 

[RoofTops]

The US has long had a problem with oxalic acid. Perhaps because it wasn't something anyone could make any money out of.

My basis for recommending OA syrup is based on the successful experience of large scale beekeepers. Not what some website or other recommends.

 

[RoofTops]

The other significant fact is that the method of treatment does not require one to open up the hive at all, and since Oxalic treatment of any sort must be done in or around the middle of the dormant season (unless one has devised a swarm or caught one of course) maintaining the comfort of the cluster is important. Why chill them if one doesn't need to.

Look back at my first post. A Finnish beekeeper in the dark of winter digs his bees out from under a metre of snow and trickles them with oxalic acid. The bees subsequently thrive.

Sometimes it helps not to consider what might be going on but to judge by results.

Oxalic acid is very effective and be used in more than one way but some methods are safer for the operator than others.

"Stand up wind" for heavens sake. A molecule can move faster than you can run.

 

[Rosti]

"Stand up wind" for heavens sake. A molecule can move faster than you can run.

Succinct, accurate and ironic all in one! Nicely!

 

[Repwoc]

"Stand up wind" for heavens sake. A molecule can move faster than you can run.

and the wind has known to be fickle.

 

[Hivemaker.]

My basis for not using oxalic it is that i found it severely knocked the colonys back in spring,and killed any with nosema soon after application.....did not have any losses last winter since not using it,and very strong healthy colonys....unlike the two previous one's,....plus not good for queens.

 

[VEG]

Hivemaker do you just use your thymol mix for treating or do you use anything else as well?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Just thymol.....in syrup....and on oasis.....very occasionally use formic if needed, but have not needed this for eight years now. Tried some strips to see if mites would still be resistant after eight years.....and they were very much so.

 

[oliver90owner]

Rosti,

Succinct, accurate and ironic all in one! Nicely!

Yes, even if a molecule can move faster than one can run, it changes direction randomly so very often that progress against a light breeze is impossible!

I presume you have observed 'Brownian movement' of particles under a microscope? I've demonstrated it many times. The oxalic does not stay as a vapour for long, it soon condenses into a 'smoke'.

Common sense and an appropriate particle mask is more than adequate protection, the common sense factor being the most important, the particle mask to capture anything the common sense cannot avoid!

I originally sprayed, then I made my own evaporator (3 diesel engine glow plugs set into an aluminium dished disc); don't use it any more as I got another Peugeot that needed a couple glow plugs so dismantled it. Trickled after that.

The vapouriser certainly worked a treat, the bees did not seem to be affected. Was not so sure as to the trickling at the time, but seemed OK. Now I prefer to only trickle if really needed. My choice. If I lose a colony over winter it will not be because of 'excessive' mite population, I am confident of that.

Earlier action in the summer may be needed than following OA winter treatment, but I can live with that. I don't have so many colonies that I need to 'blanket treat' and I have lost colonies to varroa before now and had some slowed in their development, too, so I hope I am a little wiser now.

Things may change if my colony numbers were to markedly increase, but my choice of breeding queens would still not be subjected to OA if at all possible.

Regards, RAB

 

[grizzly]

I wont be using it this year, 5 hives with no mite drop and 1 with miniscule drop. would like to say its because of some miracle i have performed, but the bees seem to be well on top of things themselves.

I have dusted this year, fed thymolised syrup and am coming to the end of 3 weeks with Api Life Var, do not see any reason to subject them to OA as well.

 

[Mike a]

 

[BKF Admin]

Thats 2 of you from Hampshire and I will make it 3 and say I am going to have to check my mite drop after Thymol this year before going ahead with OA because I also have not seen a mite this year.

I am sure they will be there but nothing like the last few years.

 

[beebreeder]

The bottom line - for queens - is has anyone noted queens living less long when oxalic is used?
Gavin
The one and only time I used OA the following spring I had more problems with either drone laying queens or very poor brood pattern and as soon as drones were about the bees superceded (before I could raise and get my own queens mated) could be a coincidence but I know I am not the only one that enjoys queen rearing to have had similar problems.

 

[BKF Admin]

Damn it Beebreeder,you are making a strong case here.
I am in two minds.

I had a few problems with supercedure myself this spring and had used OA at xmas.