Smartwater as possible solution?

[jezd]

Smartwater was an insurance company request and allows the recovery of full value to replace them - no swartwater no insurance in this case.

 

[savoyard]

Branding with a hot iron is good. (the hives, not the bees!) Use post code or BBKA membership number. If it is on the outside of the hive, it is a deterrent to a would-be thief.

I have even heard of people branding the frames, but perhaps that is over the top.

To cancel, put the identical brand at right angles over the first.

Savoyard

 

[psafloyd]

Branding with a hot iron is good. (the hives, not the bees!) Use post code or BBKA membership number. If it is on the outside of the hive, it is a deterrent to a would-be thief.

I have even heard of people branding the frames, but perhaps that is over the top.

To cancel, put the identical brand at right angles over the first.

Savoyard

I had thought of getting a branding iron to do that. Could you use a cheap soldering iron, as the ones for doing thingy (the art of burning wood, and no, I don't mean cub scouts or arson) machines are rather dear.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Perhaps the best security method would be to spend all your time with your beehives,and even sleep next to them, like the old shepherds and goat herders used to do with their flocks,.....could even run a length of fishing line from yer hives...tied to yer big toe at night as an alarm system.

 

[Bad Boy Bee]

I commissioned a farrier to make me a branding iron of my own design and at £20 it was a bargain, it must be, he complained bitterly about the complexity of it. I intend building another 30 or so hives and marking them accordingly with it. I also know of a security company who patrol apiaries for a fee. CCTV, location devices and loads of other methods have been described to me and I am considering a few.
At the end of the day lack of publicity, camouflage and common sensed usually protects your equipment,

 

[Poly Hive]

Not read the whole thread so sorry if this doubles up.

Local Crime watch has Smartwater kits for sale at £18.

Am going in on Monday to explore more.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

I also know of a security company who patrol apiaries for a fee.

I knew of one of these companys some years ago that used to do the security on a trading estate,they operated like a kind of mafia protection racket.
Pay us, or something could go missing.

 

[Bad Boy Bee]

HM - you obviously run in different circles from me

 

[Hivemaker.]

HM - you obviously run in different circles from me

I tend to avoid bikes and booze these days...lol.

 

[Bad Boy Bee]

Hm - I tend not to mix the two these days - It always end in a spillage

 

[Bramble Keeper]

I have contacted them and spoken with the company and Kent Police are making use of Smartwater, they are sending a trial sample to see how it can be applied. The benefits are it is a naturally occuring susbstance and is water based it will not affect the bees but like DNA is linked to an individual so even if the frames are sold in new boxes they can be linked back to an address and lets be honest you can't make that much of a hive without the bees.
I understand that you think the police are not bothered about it but as a serving officer that is not the case theft is theft and the hardest part is proving ownership especially in this case. As I said Kent had the equipment to detect items with smartwater and its worth a try its a deterrent as its not removable unlike other methods. As for cost its on an individuals needs as far as I can make out but like all things supply and demand really doesnt help if the cost was lowered then people wouldnt be so keen to steal items??
Please don't shoot me down in flames i tried to think what other solutions are there apart from branding/marking.

I am new to this forum but as a Met SOCO I have been thinking along the same lines as you. The possible follow on would be to get the Bee Inspectors to carry a small UV lamp and check hives for Smartwater marking. If the markings don't match the registration with Smartwater it would be a starting point and more hives might be recovered.

 

[Headnavigator]

I put my money on Smartwater. If it's painted on places that have to be touched to move or to disassemble the hive it can't be avoided. Don't see the point in putting it on frames as well, by that time matey will have got it all over his paws anyway, one hopes.
'Smartwater' warning signs on 'Beware of the bees' signs also.

 

[hedgerow pete]

whilst i totalt support the use and idea behind smart water and the hundreds of peopleon many many threads about stealing hives.

i still cant see who you lot think are going to come around and test it, the police wont soco dont exist, technicly.

i mean what are you going to do buy all the testing kit for a few grand and every time you get a hive nicked, go round the country testing every ones hives

i have been micro chipping my pets for 14 years now, the scanner is a few hundred and every vet that does chipping has one but it is still not normal to scan every animal i n the vets. if you think about the millon pound industry of stolen animals and the then being resold the simple task of routinely scanning at a vet would instantly stop a lot of the lost animals, but they refuse to do it, sorry people you realy are wasting your time, you are better of getting 200 kilos of concrete

 

[zng109]

I have to admit I have not read all the thread but will do my best to inform you on the product and its down fall.
to my knoledge 2 product exist, one is "comunity" smart water, the other is "individual" smart water.
I work for a multinational that uses both.
we have 2 types of asset one is nomadic, the other is fixed asset.
our nomadic assets are marked with the equivelent of "comunity" smart water.
the actual "smart water" is a wter based laquer with a unique forensic code mixed into it, should a "nomadic" asset be disovered in the possesion of someone with no just claim to it under uv light inspection the laquer will glow.
A sample of that laquer will be taken and then examined under a micro scope and its "dna" checked against the data base. The dna is unique to us and is not used by any other firm or individual, the item will be returned to us and the person prosicuted.
Fixed assets are marked with a diferent smart water that has a different DNA unique only to that location, so an asset removed from that location can be directly connected to that location 100% and there is no valid reason for it to be moved from that location, nor can an explenation be given as to why you have that item in your possesion.
smart water has a 100% conviction rate.

Now I have allso bought Items from E-bay that are excooperate from acredited sellers and using my own equipment found that the kit has been tagged and been able to remove the smart water from the product (in this case a refurbed lap top) so the system is not fool proof, I have found that the aplication of the product is the key, painting it into louvers, inside mobile phones, spraying it into radiators (vehical) and applying it in multiple places on an object to defeat the theives. however I have noted that smart water is heat sensative and goes a slightly visable brown colour if put on some engine parts.
That is my own expeariance but should not apply to you and your aplications.

available to your selves are police comunity smart waters that will apply to police forces and postal zones not individuals, say you lived in a sw11 post code london and your property was discovered in a ne4 property the police would be able to contact the owner of the sw11 DNA who in turn would check their crime reports and be able to tie the individual with the crime.
however if say in the same post code two people who subscribed to the smart water program and one chose to remove an item from their neighbor then the matter would deteriorate to a hear say case.

there are other types of smart water available for diferent aplications, I have personaly pushed the smart water rep to push for a fuel adative to be mixed with heating oil, this would alow stolen heating oil to be recovered and vehicals running on stolen heating oil to be prosicuted for more than just tax evasion.

I hope that this was of some help to you

 

[zng109]

whilst i totalt support the use and idea behind smart water and the hundreds of peopleon many many threads about stealing hives.

i still cant see who you lot think are going to come around and test it, the police wont soco dont exist, technicly.

i mean what are you going to do buy all the testing kit for a few grand and every time you get a hive nicked, go round the country testing every ones hives

i have been micro chipping my pets for 14 years now, the scanner is a few hundred and every vet that does chipping has one but it is still not normal to scan every animal i n the vets. if you think about the millon pound industry of stolen animals and the then being resold the simple task of routinely scanning at a vet would instantly stop a lot of the lost animals, but they refuse to do it, sorry people you realy are wasting your time, you are better of getting 200 kilos of concrete

sorry you are incorect, smart water agents accompany police raids with UV lanterns and also provide police with uv screening in custody suites free of charge to the tax payer.
it is used by network rail and other major companys (like the one I work for)
you should be able to contact your local police and subscribe to your local smart water comunity program at a small fee

 

[For want of a better word]

I recall a spate of metal farm gates being stolen in Surrey... of course there were posh farm gates.... My security firm sold a lot of pots of a special paint that could be applied and could be tested for a specific mix of "rare earths" in a mass spectrometer... the company who sold the stuff would test for free. Not one gate that had been marked [ and a special sticker applied] got stolen...
or maybe it was the fact that the "pikeys" stealing the gate suffered a public linching?
was back in the last century!!!

AND one "Corner of Society" rich "farmer" got well and truly done for receiving!!

 

[hedgerow pete]

zng108. i applaude your belief in the system and wholey agree with every thing you say. now try my views


2004, sept. i had stolen 14 full national hives, extractor and other euipment, etc etc etc total replacement value well over £5k, reported it to the police who informed me that they will not be coming out to see me or the seen of crime, but i was given a crime number!!!!! it was not until i involved a friendly solicitor to sue the backsides off them did i get a jounor plod around the house who then pointed out that unless I TELL THEM WHERE THE BEES WENT it was a dead end case and writen off, and in any case the bees are not allowed to be reported as stolen as they are freely flying live stock and i can only report the hives etc stolen.

I have had since then several other thiefts of equipment on ALL OCCASIONS there has been a complete lack of intrest from the plod except for the last case in which they did find the bee hives but were more intrested in every thing else at this guys farm. the bloke (me) and all my hard work to find it and the stolen bee hives went down as "other accounts" and i was blown out the court room and police station.

so personaly i think 99.99% of plods are a waste of time, but thats just me and what i see and deal with at home and at work, dont get me started at work!!!!

and lastly the whole smart water thing only works if someones looking for it. which i have NEVER MEET A NEWBEE buying a nuc with a light thingy in there hand!!

i am sorry but the whole thing does work every where but on bee hives, lap tops yes, transit vans yes, tractors yes, bee hives never!!!

can you honestly say at any public auction and i have been to loads there is a member of staff walking around with a smart water testing set checking that every item is for sale is legit!! and as for some one doing it at a bee auction , sorry no never!!

with all those negatives where do you think it will be tested and the fraud found

i hope you never have to become as mardy and grumpy as me but when you have to deal with tea leaves as much as i have to , you know the system does not work,

sorry peter

 

[zng109]

The testing kit is just a high power UV lamp, it will show the dye, take a smple and send it to the lab.
You cant do it on site.
Alas you are totaly correct about the Police I think I have a draw full of leaflets somewhere with crime referance numbers and leaflets offering me counseling.
For that reason apart from the smart water system we employ a private security firm who "bend the rules" and we have a very good conviction rate.
On one occasion we had a peice of equipment fitted with a satalite tracker that was stolen, we got to the new location of the equipment and asked for police assistance.
The police refused to cooperate until we provided proof of ownership and only then did they enter the premesis where a large haul of "stolen to order" plant was discovered and recovered, It was a great boost to their recoverd stolen figuers but as i say getting the cooperation was dificult and for a time the collecting driver was in personal danger and i hate to say it but its "more than his jobs worth" to undertake such tasks

 

[zng109]

ps its zng109, zng108 is a totaly different kettle of fish

 

[oldmatty]

Ive been thinking about rigging one of these up. Small loop on the bottom of my broodbox and then down the frame leg. Saw another type ages ago in a farmers weekly that fires flares up.

http://www.william-powell.co.uk/Products/9045/Poacher-Alarm-Gun-12-Bore-Blank-Cartridge/