Rearing queens

[beebot]

I live in a built up area with load of other beeks around me. All seems to have there own opinion about what bees they should keep with no consensus. Hence there is all sorts of bees close to by own apiary: local mongrels (which are that great), linguistica, buckfast, carniolan.
In these conditions is there any real point in trying to raise my own queens as it is impossible to control the mating and I could get all sorts rubbish out. would buying queens from those that can control mating be the best way forward for me? My aims are simply to enjoy my bees (i.e. nice gentle forgiving bees) and get a good harvest when possible.
I cannot afford either the time or money to get into artificial insemination.

 

[dexter's shed]

My aims are simply to enjoy my bees (i.e. nice gentle forgiving bees) and get a good harvest when possible.
I cannot afford either the time or money to get into artificial insemination.

so just be a beekeeper, from all the swarms I have collected, they have always turned out to be nice gentle docile bees, why worry about something until it happens, I did once remove a swarm of lets say "angry bees" but I was pre warned about their temperament, and also their super honey storing, and therefore moved them straight to my woodland apiary, they did well last year on the honey, but they are still a bugger to work with and will get re queened next year with a more laid back queen

 

[Erichalfbee]

I live in a built up area with load of other beeks around me.
In these conditions is there any real point in trying to raise my own queens............ would buying queens from those that can control mating be the best way forward for me? My aims are simply to enjoy my bees (i.e. nice gentle forgiving bees) and get a good harvest when possible.

beebot, buy queens....if you want a quiet easy life with no surprises in your beekeeping then that is surely the way to go.
It's OK don't feel guilty about it.
There will come a time when all I can manage is two hives in my garden and that is absolutely what I will do.

from all the swarms I have collected, they have always turned out to be nice gentle docile bees, I did once remove a swarm of lets say "angry bees"...... and ......moved them straight to my woodland apiary,

Dexter....the poor chap might not have a woodland.

 

[dexter's shed]

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Dexter....the poor chap might not have a woodland.

no, but he could then either pass them on to another beek, or squish the queen and add another, I have nothing against buying in queens, but at £40 a pop for one, I'm tight,lol

 

[Erichalfbee]

no, but he could then either pass them on to another beek, or squish the queen and add another,

Bought in

 

[itma]

... Hence there is all sorts of bees close to by own apiary: local mongrels (which are that great), linguistica, buckfast, carniolan.
In these conditions is there any real point in trying to raise my own queens as it is impossible to control the mating and I could get all sorts rubbish out. would buying queens from those that can control mating be the best way forward for me? ...

Most Queen rearers have very little (if any) control over their Queens' mating partners. (Yes, the best do, but the rest don't.)
"Local mongrels" are exactly that. And usually do pretty well. And aren't usually nasty.
You don't need total control to have reasonable Queens, and thus bees.

 

[beebot]

Most Queen rearers have very little (if any) control over their Queens' mating partners. (Yes, the best do, but the rest don't.)
"Local mongrels" are exactly that. And usually do pretty well. And aren't usually nasty.
You don't need total control to have reasonable Queens, and thus bees.

But the locals I have seen are not very nice to handle. The first false more and they are flying all over the place. Sorry more info needed in original post. There are times were I have colonies which really are a pleasure to open up to say the least. Should also say some hives are on an allotment which does make me a little nervous about them causing problems.

 

[Thymallus]

If it's any help and I can only speak for Buckfast. All my F1s are as good as gold. Most of the F2,s and most of the F3s. With good quality starting queens you should get 2 to 3 generations of good bees,with open matings and few problems. Yes you will get occasional rogues. In my experience no worse than the bad locals in my area.
I've heard similar experiences with Carniolans and Italians.
Just make sure you buy pure mated, not open matedbreedibgstock.

 

[Vortex]

I live in a built up area with load of other beeks around me. All seems to have there own opinion about what bees they should keep with no consensus. Hence there is all sorts of bees close to by own apiary: local mongrels (which are that great), linguistica, buckfast, carniolan.
In these conditions is there any real point in trying to raise my own queens as it is impossible to control the mating and I could get all sorts rubbish out. would buying queens from those that can control mating be the best way forward for me? My aims are simply to enjoy my bees (i.e. nice gentle forgiving bees) and get a good harvest when possible.
I cannot afford either the time or money to get into artificial insemination.

Depending upon which part of Kent you are in .. there is also a population of black bees ... and an unofficial black bee breeding program.

Part of my stock came from there.. and part from a swarm that had a lovely unmarked linguistica queen. Mongrels aren't so bad a s they adapt to the local environment. As long as you're only keeping the queens with the characteristics you want and cullling those you don't, then I don't see there is an issue.
I'm in 2 minds about one of my colonies.. they're much more temperamental than I would like, but they're my most productive colony this year.. and they're the only one that hasn't tried to swarm. I have a note on their record sheet from the end of last year that says "REQUEEN" on it.. so far I haven't but then I've not had any "spare" queens this year.

 

[beebot]

Depending upon which part of Kent you are in .. there is also a population of black bees ... and an unofficial black bee breeding program.

Part of my stock came from there.. and part from a swarm that had a lovely unmarked linguistica queen. Mongrels aren't so bad a s they adapt to the local environment. As long as you're only keeping the queens with the characteristics you want and cullling those you don't, then I don't see there is an issue.
I'm in 2 minds about one of my colonies.. they're much more temperamental than I would like, but they're my most productive colony this year.. and they're the only one that hasn't tried to swarm. I have a note on their record sheet from the end of last year that says "REQUEEN" on it.. so far I haven't but then I've not had any "spare" queens this year.

My experience of them suggest they are not good. Not nice to handle and swarm at the slightest chance. I really do wonder if we have too many amateur who do not help matters. For example I know somebody who takes swarm cells to make nucs and then sells them to beginners. OK nothing wrong with that in one sense but is it no wonder then that local mongrels are extremely swarmy and will often swarm 2 or even 3 times a year even if managed correctly with plenty of space.

 

[For want of a better word]

If it's any help and I can only speak for Buckfast. All my F1s are as good as gold. Most of the F2,s and most of the F3s. With good quality starting queens you should get 2 to 3 generations of good bees,with open matings and few problems. Yes you will get occasional rogues. In my experience no worse than the bad locals in my area.
I've heard similar experiences with Carniolans and Italians.
Just make sure you buy pure mated, not open matedbreedibgstock.

I have found the so called pure Buckfast hybrids to be good for one season and then when crossed out to be the most swarmy, robbing, unproductive bee going... at least here in the Tamar Valley... which is why I have Pure Native Cornish black bees ( in an isolated river valley) and nice New Zealand Italian line bred bees in my own local area.
I expect the hybridised bees do quite well elsewhere where they have been bred specifically for catch and release beekeepers.

Yeghes da

 

[beebot]

I have found the so called pure Buckfast hybrids to be good for one season and then when crossed out to be the most swarmy, robbing, unproductive bee going... at least here in the Tamar Valley... which is why I have Pure Native Cornish black bees ( in an isolated river valley) and nice New Zealand Italian line bred bees in my own local area.
I expect the hybridised bees do quite well elsewhere where they have been bred specifically for catch and release beekeepers.

Yeghes da

I think your situation is probably very different as it is not as built up as mine with so many beekeepers around you ( some good but some very definitely bad).

 

[For want of a better word]

I think your situation is probably very different as it is not as built up as mine with so many beekeepers around you ( some good but some very definitely bad).

I thought Kent was relatively rural...have an acquaintance in Ashford who is doing very well with my New Zealand bees, my uncle also still keeps bees ( My New Zealands ) near Langton Green.

Yeghes da

 

[dexter's shed]

some hives are on an allotment which does make me a little nervous about them causing problems.

and does that feeling carry on when opening the hive ? as bees do tend to react to how we are with them, maybe being nervous that something will happen on inspections, makes something happen ??

 

[Thymallus]

I have found the so called pure Buckfast hybrids to be good for one season and then when crossed out to be the most swarmy, robbing, unproductive bee going..

I think you need to check your supplier is providing you with quality Buckfast queens, sounds like he is giving you F1's or F2's.
Any bee strain being open mated will soon end up like the locals which as you correctly describe as swarmy unproductive etc.
Sounds like a good description of your 80percenters to me.

 

[Vortex]

Certainly the "lingustica" queen swarmed the year after I got her, and her granddaughters have as well. My "black bee" stock on the other hand are more varied.. some have tried to swarm every year and the others not. I've also now lost one of the original queens as she appeared to fail last winter and they didn't try to superceede.
My "lively" colony however is the granddaughter of a queen I got as a QCell from the local associations most placid and most productive hive 2 years ago. At that point they had 1 colony that was prone to be aggressive.. this year they've had problems with severe aggression from all their colonies, so you never can tell.

 

[For want of a better word]

I think you need to check your supplier is providing you with quality Buckfast queens, sounds like he is giving you F1's or F2's.
Any bee strain being open mated will soon end up like the locals which as you correctly describe as swarmy unproductive etc.
Sounds like a good description of your 80percenters to me.

Perhaps I should add that when I lived and kept bees in the Home counties the so called Buckfast bees did OK ... but only for one season.
I believe the supplier ( Mr T) sourced his bees from wherever or whoever could sell them to him at rock bottom price so that there was a handsome margin in it for him!
I do agree that possibly the local bee to where you live is probably adapted to the local environmental conditions... once upon a time swarminess was considered to be a virtue.. then they were skeppists!

Yeghes da

 

[sussexbaker]

my uncle also still keeps bees ( My New Zealands ) near Langton Green.

Langton Green is just down the road from me, considering we're semi-rural we must have a bee hive density approaching that of London. I know of atleast four apiaries in Langton Green.

 

[Thymallus]

I believe the supplier ( Mr T) sourced his bees from wherever or whoever could sell them to him at rock bottom price so that there was a handsome margin in it for him!

So you are basing your statements about the characteristics of Buckfast bees when you aren't even sure they were pure Buckfast queens you were buying in the first place?
There is no such thing as a cheap pure Buckfast Queen....Well... unless you have a nice isolated mating site tucked away somewhere in your back yard.

 

[B+.]

There is no such thing as a cheap pure Buckfast Queen....Well... unless you have a nice isolated mating site tucked away somewhere in your back yard.

What is a pure Buckfast?