Rabid Vampire Bees!!!

[einsteinagogo]

Could being in their flight path be the problem? Really hate the idea of squishing a queen!

I've was always advised by my mentor, never to stand in front of the entrance, and never to approach a hive from the entrance, as the guard bees may see you coming, and get out...

So I don't, I always walk up to the hives from the side, and then inspect from the rear.

Again, I've had bees crash into me flying out of the hives, bump into me, get tangled in my curly birds nest hair, and panic....

However, I think your bridal way, public foot path, is probably more of an issue.

I've now moved all my colonies to a single out apiary, away from public...

I'm always curious when folk say re-queen, how do you know, that your new queen, is not going to rear good bees....the queen breeder surely cannot make any guarantees, that you will have nice bees, there are so many variables...sure they can maybe guarantee, and rear a queen from a good line, check laying pattern, but how long do they rear them for to check, and do they really have time to put the colony through tests, by approaching hives without any kit, 20-30 feet from the hive.

Maybe you should ask the queen rearer, with your super new queen, can I approach a hive 20-30 feet with no suit, and not get stung, is this an iron clad guarantee....

my simple understanding, (or I'm wrong!) is a queen can mate with up to 20 drones, so that makes all the worker bees, related as step sisters, (same mother, different father) but they could have different fathers, so their genes are different ? (e.g. different father), so this does make all the worker bees slightly different ?

so does that make 1 in 20 bees, nasty, if they've had a bad father drone bee ?

 

[Finman]

Could being in their flight path be the problem? Really hate the idea of squishing a queen!

Squishing queens is basic of succesfull beekeeping.
That is the way it goes.

 

[user 6228]

How about an entrance that faces downwards, a dartington type but with a vertical landing board

 

[wessexmario]

How about an entrance that faces downwards, a dartington type but with a vertical landing board

don't they use their ocelli on the top of their head to detect movement?

maybe a deep entrance, or side walls to the entrance, to shield their view to the side

 

[Finman]

don't they use their ocelli on the top of their head to detect movement?

maybe a deep entrance, or side walls to the entrance, to shield their view to the side

Vain tricks

 

[Fatbee]

I also find some days a big difference between the bees being stingy or pingy. The other day on a coolish afternoon they seemed quite feisty but my cattle just ten yards away behind a gate in the field next door (who had come to keep me company as cattle love to do) we're not batting an eyelid so I assume the bees were not actually stinging much despite pinging my veil.

 

[Thymallus]

Maybe you should ask the queen rearer, with your super new queen, can I approach a hive 20-30 feet with no suit, and not get stung, is this an iron clad guarantee....

my simple understanding, (or I'm wrong!) is a queen can mate with up to 20 drones, so that makes all the worker bees, related as step sisters, (same mother, different father) but they could have different fathers, so their genes are different ? (e.g. different father), so this does make all the worker bees slightly different ?

so does that make 1 in 20 bees, nasty, if they've had a bad father drone bee ?

If you can't get within 20-30 feet then you really should squish the queen.
Aggression is in part controlled by queen pheromones and bee genetics. Replacing a bad tempered queen with a good one has an almost immediate effect on calming the current bees temper, but the real docile bees don't come along until all the original bees have died off. Reported by Cooper many years ago and one of his observations I've experience happen a few times.
Thought to be possibly due to queen pheromones affecting the level of stimuli needed for triggering defensive behavior in a colony. But it's not the whole story.

 

[bontbee]

On one of the - fortunately few - times I've had to requeen, the temperament improved even on the introduction of a ripe QC...

 

[einsteinagogo]

If you can't get within 20-30 feet then you really should squish the queen.
Aggression is in part controlled by queen pheromones and bee genetics. Replacing a bad tempered queen with a good one has an almost immediate effect on calming the current bees temper, but the real docile bees don't come along until all the original bees have died off. Reported by Cooper many years ago and one of his observations I've experience happen a few times.
Thought to be possibly due to queen pheromones affecting the level of stimuli needed for triggering defensive behavior in a colony. But it's not the whole story.

but isn't there a difference, between cannot get to within 20-30 feet, due to masses of bee attacks, or just one bee stinging you....?

and if you have alarm pheromones on you at point of sting, and you are near a hive, are you not inviting more bees to sting you there ?

I must admit I have nothing to compare, in the many colonies I've had in three seasons...other than one colony that caused me a few issues, one day, and I got many many stings...

but that was just one day....and I had no idea, why.....week after they were fine.

 

[Thymallus]

but isn't there a difference, between cannot get to within 20-30 feet, due to masses of bee attacks, or just one bee stinging you....?

You tell me....I've never experienced or heard of mass attacks at that distance on approaching a colony. Have you?
It's usually single bees acting defensively from colonies that have an unusually large defensive perimeter.

 

[einsteinagogo]

You tell me....I've never experienced or heard of mass attacks at that distance on approaching a colony. Have you?
It's usually single bees acting defensively from colonies that have an unusually large defensive perimeter.

ah, so this trait of a single bee acting defensively from colonies that have an unusually large defensive perimeter,

is that the unwanted trait here, and a single sting will then bring in other bees...hence two stings - I assume it's up to the beekeeper, if he feels this is an colony issue or not?

I had an occurrence, with a colony which was always well behaved, I went to add another super, removed roof, crown board and super, to put another super on brood box, and ......

the moment, the colony was opened, I had gloves covered in bees, bees on my head, they found an uncovered spot on my wrist, I got stung, repeatedly, so many times, it drew blood, and I have a scar there now...at the sting location.

closed up quickly (probably should have run away...), and took many many stings to the head...and the followed me 150m and carried on stinging....

I went to the quacks to be checked out, bloods, blood pressure...he was pleased I'm a stocky chap, or morbidly obese (is the clinical term, he would have been concerned if I had been thin bloke!), and swelling was spectacular....

I was prepared to re-queen that colony, the week later they were placid again, never worked out what triggered that bee rage...

I still have them, and that scar is a reminder, to quality of kit, smoker to hand...etc

 

[Thymallus]

I had an occurrence, with a colony which was always well behaved, I went to add another super, removed roof, crown board and super, to put another super on brood box, and ......

Sympathy, I suspect we all have similar tales. But wasn't your original point about attacks as you approach bee hives?, not attacks caused by close manipulation?
So I'm not sure what point(s) you are trying to make.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Sympathy, I suspect we all have similar tales. But wasn't your original point about attacks as you approach bee hives?, not attacks caused by close manipulation?
So I'm not sure what point(s) you are trying to make.

my point ALL bees have off days.....don't they ?

so based on a one off, do you re-queen or give them the benefit of the doubt?

e.g. what is not acceptable behaviour?

isn't it difficult to judge, every bodies expectations are different of bee behaviour? Apart from maybe a Bee Inspector, that has visited and inspected many different colonies, or beekeepers, with many years of experience, that have a comparison...or baseline.

e.g. I moved my bees from the allotments, because people would climb over the fence, walk up to the hives, and look at the bees emerging from the entrance, at about 6 inches distance, without any protective clothing....

I think most beekeepers would agree, this is just stupid, and if they got stung they would be to blame, would they....

but based on this, I could not accept this risk, so they were moved!

(no one was stung, and there was no issue).

 

[peteinwilts]

my point ALL bees have off days.....don't they ?
QUOTE]



Some bees just have more off days than others. It is those that are off all of the time that is less tolerable.

For new beekeepers reading, bees can be off for all sorts of reasons. The weather can make them cranky (especially before a storm, as per my experience on Sunday), failing queens, or other outside influences such as attempted ant or wasp invasions.

If bees are in a position that can never afford to be ever grumpy, then you should question the position.

The majority of the bees are women! all women get grumpy sometimes! (and like bees, some more often than others! permanently grumpy women get divorced!)

 

[pargyle]

Oddly enough my pussycats (usually placid and very easy to stand and watch) were a bit defensive yesterday - it was VERY windy and I suspect they have found a field of rape about a mile away that, after the rain we have had, must be attractive now. I suspect it's hard work flying when it's very windy and frustrating when there's an abundance of forage. Too many workers and not enough to do ... bound to lead to trouble !

They weren't stinging - just a few 'guard bees' hovering in front of me and giving me the evil eye .. I can usually stand a couple of feet in front of the hives and watch them and even get quite close to the landing board without upsetting them so it was a bit novel to have a couple eyeing me up. I just retreated and let them get on with it .. the winds mostly dropped today and it's lovely and sunny so I'll have a look a bit later and see if they are more amenable.

I was round at our association apiary manager's home earlier - he has 30+ hives - and he told me he had to abandon an inspection as the bees were being so difficult - he put it down to the windy conditions. His advice ... best just walk away and come back another day.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Oddly enough my pussycats (usually placid and very easy to stand and watch) were a bit defensive yesterday - it was VERY windy and I suspect they have found a field of rape about a mile away that, after the rain we have had, must be attractive now. I suspect it's hard work flying when it's very windy and frustrating when there's an abundance of forage. Too many workers and not enough to do ... bound to lead to trouble !

They weren't stinging - just a few 'guard bees' hovering in front of me and giving me the evil eye .. I can usually stand a couple of feet in front of the hives and watch them and even get quite close to the landing board without upsetting them so it was a bit novel to have a couple eyeing me up. I just retreated and let them get on with it .. the winds mostly dropped today and it's lovely and sunny so I'll have a look a bit later and see if they are more amenable.

I was round at our association apiary manager's home earlier - he has 30+ hives - and he told me he had to abandon an inspection as the bees were being so difficult - he put it down to the windy conditions. His advice ... best just walk away and come back another day.

One of the more respected riders in the horse world Rhinhart Klimpfke once observed "there are some days when you should get off your horse and go shopping" Seems to be a parallel there!

 

[Thymallus]

my point ALL bees have off days.....don't they ?

so based on a one off, do you re-queen or give them the benefit of the doubt?

e.g. what is not acceptable behaviour?

Acceptable behavior is what you make of it. Some people tolerate hives that others wouldn't, so it's really a personal decision. Where it becomes more serious is when bystanders are getting attacked or stung, then you need to do something, even if it's only moving that hive(s) elsewhere.
If their behavior is beyond what you will tolerate then that is probably the time to do something, usually squashing the queen is good a starting point.

One thing to bear in mind is how you handle the bees and frames on inspections. I was asked to look at some bees from hell (according to the owner).....they where fine. Turned out he was just removing and knocking the frames about too much for them.

So to answer your question, there is probably no single definition of acceptable behavior.

 

[pargyle]

One of the more respected riders in the horse world Rhinhart Klimpfke once observed "there are some days when you should get off your horse and go shopping" Seems to be a parallel there!

Yep ... same situation, different animal. I've just been round to the apiary .. really busy, clouds of bees coming and going .. stood in the middle of them watching .. they couldn't have cared less ... Just far too busy to bother with me I think .. all back to normal.

 

[Thymallus]

One of the more respected riders in the horse world Rhinhart Klimpfke once observed "there are some days when you should get off your horse and go shopping" Seems to be a parallel there!

I'm beginning to detect that many peoples bees are not on their best behavior this year. Are many other keepers finding this?

 

[For want of a better word]

I'm beginning to detect that many peoples bees are not on their best behavior this year. Are many other keepers finding this?

My bees are well behaved... I have selected them that way by deliberately not introducing foreign grumpy grouchy bad temper alleles!

AND that is both in my pure bred New Zealand Italians and the pure Cornish Amms... whatever your lengthy studbooks may declare!


Yeghes da