Queen cage - varroa management

[KJB]

Colloss backed study, definitely scientifically solid. I used Ralph's words from his presentation.
The purpose of my original post was to ask if anyone had experience of this method. Now I know the answer to this; the trials that have been done so far give me enough evidence to want to try it.

He stated in his lecture they used trickling and sublimation on colonies that were broodless.

I too would like to try this method, I actually got the small queen cage from Donegal Bees last year, hope to try it this year and compare with my usual varroa treatment. Worth a try.

 

[Murox]

I take it that this enforced brood break idea will be carried out on all colonies in the same apiary at the same time???

 

[North End Bees]

so not really 'backed up' by any science then, and no 'significant difference' rather then your claim that they 'performed ahead' In fact, not a very scientific approach at all by the looks of it.

To be fair the original study does look robust. And in showing that, although no group outperformed the others significantly, it does prove that timed brood breaks have a broadly similar outcome to using a regular miticide regime.

This is useful, not only to people who don't want to use chemical interventions, but also in a future scenario where chemical treatments may not actually be possible.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sigh...... whatever happened to simple beekeeping, splitting when needed then letting the bees get on with their intricate little lives in peace and quiet?

 

[Newbeeneil]

Sigh...... whatever happened to simple beekeeping, splitting when needed then letting the bees get on with their intricate little lives in peace and quiet?

Varroa?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sigh...... whatever happened to simple beekeeping, splitting when needed then letting the bees get on with their intricate little lives in peace and quiet?

Varroa?

no, it's just a compulsion with having to constantly fiddle about - if it wasn't varroa it would be something else - Manley mentioned it back in 1947

 

[Erichalfbee]

Varroa?

You know I didn’t mean that.

 

[Boston Bees]

I take it that this enforced brood break idea will be carried out on all colonies in the same apiary at the same time???

I would hope that it would be done on half the colonies, with the other half given a "traditional" treatment of some kind, to act as a control? Otherwise you are comparing the results in two different apiaries, which wouldn't mean as much.

 

[Newbeeneil]

You know I didn’t mean that.

Sorry Dani, I just couldn't resist it.

 

[madasafish]

We have enforced brood breaks - usually late June and July when it rains and rains and..


Not going to do any more

 

[North End Bees]

no, it's just a compulsion with having to constantly fiddle about - if it wasn't varroa it would be something else

Well I'm not particularly in favour of this method but I don't think it's more fiddling about than any of the other interventions you or any one else does.

If you've watched the video you'll know that the queen is caged and then left for 21 days. Not a huge amount of work??
For comparison, OA vaping repeatedly (up to 5 times sometimes to get mite numbers down) sounds a lot more fiddly than simply putting Apivar strips in. But people do what they like and justify their preferences.

There are plenty of routine beekeeping interventions which could be called fiddling but people don't complain about them. E g having a rolling demarree would be a lot of faff for one beekeeper (all that dismantling of skyscrapers to move frames of brood up) while another would think the outcome quite reasonably justifies the work.

As in all areas of life, one person's version of a routine procedure is another person's fiddling.

 

[GuyNir]

I myself won’t try this, but I definitely keep an open mind.
When Demaree came up with his method, I’m sure some said this is unnecessary fiddling...

 

[mbc]

I myself won’t try this, but I definitely keep an open mind.
When Demaree came up with his method, I’m sure some said this is unnecessary fiddling...

To be fair most still do 're the Demaree

 

[elainemary]

Looking back over my notes from the lecture some other insights, some obvious you may know already, others perhaps new:
-it’s normal biology to have one brood break a year, queen caging attempts to use this especially if you’ve avoided / managed brood breaks to maximise honey or minimise swarming
-it’s natural for beekeepers to have concerns about any effects on the queen but it is harmless to the queen - the trials showed the odd queen failure but no difference across the 300 colonies vs normal supercedure rates
-it’s key to keep mite levels below a threshold for this method and any other controls ie varroa will lead to colony loss at 10% infestation. Need to monitor mites especially in summer. Varroa does little harm at 1% but ideally need to use this method (and any others) before levels rise to damaging thresholds. C3% is used as a threshold in some countries. Varroa drops of 20 per day was quoted in the lecture as the max threshold to take action in august
-the method learns from natural swarming ie 4 weeks brood interruption so mites become phoretic and interrupted by grooming
-in the first and second cycles of mite reproduction in spring mites do not reproduce well, same happens with brood breaks the mite is slower to start reproducing afterwards
-1-2% of the phoretic mite population is lost per day when’s broodless through grooming and the loss of foragers, so a brood interruption period like this leads to a natural mite reduction of 25%
-you can optimise the honey harvest or at least have no loss by choosing the right period ie time it for when foragers are already produced for the next flow. Whilst used in July it also works well early august for a late flow - need to understand your own climate and local conditions.
Ideal timing is to start 4 weeks before the late summer flow and follow with a one time oxalic vap just as you remove the honey and shortly after the queen is released. She will start laying c 2 days after release
-Also critical is timing of winter bee production, so time ahead of this ie complete by august
-nurse bees who have not been looking after brood will live longer - have been found to revert to feeding brood up to 55 days old
-need to continue to monitor mites before and after - no one can legislate for the beekeeper down the road who may be less diligent than you, or feral colonies that are about to collapse

Hope this is of interest to some of you
Elaine

 

[elainemary]

Well I'm not particularly in favour of this method but I don't think it's more fiddling about than any of the other interventions you or any one else does.

If you've watched the video you'll know that the queen is caged and then left for 21 days. Not a huge amount of work??
For comparison, OA vaping repeatedly (up to 5 times sometimes to get mite numbers down) sounds a lot more fiddly than simply putting Apivar strips in. But people do what they like and justify their preferences.

There are plenty of routine beekeeping interventions which could be called fiddling but people don't complain about them. E g having a rolling demarree would be a lot of faff for one beekeeper (all that dismantling of skyscrapers to move frames of brood up) while another would think the outcome quite reasonably justifies the work.

As in all areas of life, one person's version of a routine procedure is another person's fiddling.

Yes his point exactly, 30 mins to open the hive and assuming you have the skills to find the queen (helped by marking) popping her into the cage then leaving for 21 days. You’ll be taking honey off at the end of the caging, so can time that with the release of the queen.

 

[Boston Bees]

Looking back over my notes from the lecture some other insights, some obvious you may know already, others perhaps new:
-it’s normal biology to have one brood break a year, queen caging attempts to use this especially if you’ve avoided / managed brood breaks to maximise honey or minimise swarming
-it’s natural for beekeepers to have concerns about any effects on the queen but it is harmless to the queen - the trials showed the odd queen failure but no difference across the 300 colonies vs normal supercedure rates
-it’s key to keep mite levels below a threshold for this method and any other controls ie varroa will lead to colony loss at 10% infestation. Need to monitor mites especially in summer. Varroa does little harm at 1% but ideally need to use this method (and any others) before levels rise to damaging thresholds. C3% is used as a threshold in some countries. Varroa drops of 20 per day was quoted in the lecture as the max threshold to take action in august
-the method learns from natural swarming ie 4 weeks brood interruption so mites become phoretic and interrupted by grooming
-in the first and second cycles of mite reproduction in spring mites do not reproduce well, same happens with brood breaks the mite is slower to start reproducing afterwards
-1-2% of the phoretic mite population is lost per day when’s broodless through grooming and the loss of foragers, so a brood interruption period like this leads to a natural mite reduction of 25%
-you can optimise the honey harvest or at least have no loss by choosing the right period ie time it for when foragers are already produced for the next flow. Whilst used in July it also works well early august for a late flow - need to understand your own climate and local conditions.
Ideal timing is to start 4 weeks before the late summer flow and follow with a one time oxalic vap just as you remove the honey and shortly after the queen is released. She will start laying c 2 days after release
-Also critical is timing of winter bee production, so time ahead of this ie complete by august
-nurse bees who have not been looking after brood will live longer - have been found to revert to feeding brood up to 55 days old
-need to continue to monitor mites before and after - no one can legislate for the beekeeper down the road who may be less diligent than you, or feral colonies that are about to collapse

Hope this is of interest to some of you
Elaine

Excellent, clear summary, thank you

 

[holmbee]

Looking back over my notes from the lecture some other insights, some obvious you may know already, others perhaps new:
-it’s normal biology to have one brood break a year, queen caging attempts to use this especially if you’ve avoided / managed brood breaks to maximise honey or minimise swarming
-it’s natural for beekeepers to have concerns about any effects on the queen but it is harmless to the queen - the trials showed the odd queen failure but no difference across the 300 colonies vs normal supercedure rates
-it’s key to keep mite levels below a threshold for this method and any other controls ie varroa will lead to colony loss at 10% infestation. Need to monitor mites especially in summer. Varroa does little harm at 1% but ideally need to use this method (and any others) before levels rise to damaging thresholds. C3% is used as a threshold in some countries. Varroa drops of 20 per day was quoted in the lecture as the max threshold to take action in august
-the method learns from natural swarming ie 4 weeks brood interruption so mites become phoretic and interrupted by grooming
-in the first and second cycles of mite reproduction in spring mites do not reproduce well, same happens with brood breaks the mite is slower to start reproducing afterwards
-1-2% of the phoretic mite population is lost per day when’s broodless through grooming and the loss of foragers, so a brood interruption period like this leads to a natural mite reduction of 25%
-you can optimise the honey harvest or at least have no loss by choosing the right period ie time it for when foragers are already produced for the next flow. Whilst used in July it also works well early august for a late flow - need to understand your own climate and local conditions.
Ideal timing is to start 4 weeks before the late summer flow and follow with a one time oxalic vap just as you remove the honey and shortly after the queen is released. She will start laying c 2 days after release
-Also critical is timing of winter bee production, so time ahead of this ie complete by august
-nurse bees who have not been looking after brood will live longer - have been found to revert to feeding brood up to 55 days old
-need to continue to monitor mites before and after - no one can legislate for the beekeeper down the road who may be less diligent than you, or feral colonies that are about to collapse

Hope this is of interest to some of you
Elaine

Good summary Elaine. I will be trying this with a couple of my hives this year.
Michael

 

[RichardBeeW]

I have issues with the brood break management to control varroa. So you cage or remove the queen for a number of weeks. Just how is it that this controls the varroa population? Yes, I agree the varroa population increase might be put on hold, but then what? Color me confused.

The method Ralph Bulcher uses on his own bees (the 'caging' of the queens mentioned here is a popular Italian tactic with their bee farmers) is to allow the queen to continue laying on a single frame (usually just the one) in a QE covered frame. When capped he removes and replaces another to be laid up. He then does it a third time (about 1 week each frame) by which time there should be no other open brood in the hive. All 3 frames are removed and frozen, fed to chickens etc as soon as capped. His findings are its as effective as best commercial treatments and if done at the right time the lack of brood being fed can actually increase yields.
I haven't tried it yet but intending to 'blank off' 1 frame space at edge of BB with slide in QE this season.
The removed capped brood could be used to make up new colonies with a one time treatment when all emerged as there should be no brood present.
Please forgive my rambling explanation - I have no doubt you could have explained it with 1/4 of the words
Richard

 

[Michael Palmer]

The method Ralph Bulcher uses on his own bees (the 'caging' of the queens mentioned here is a popular Italian tactic with their bee farmers) is to allow the queen to continue laying on a single frame (usually just the one) in a QE covered frame. When capped he removes and replaces another to be laid up. He then does it a third time (about 1 week each frame) by which time there should be no other open brood in the hive. All 3 frames are removed and frozen, fed to chickens etc as soon as capped. His findings are its as effective as best commercial treatments and if done at the right time the lack of brood being fed can actually increase yields.
I haven't tried it yet but intending to 'blank off' 1 frame space at edge of BB with slide in QE this season.
The removed capped brood could be used to make up new colonies with a one time treatment when all emerged as there should be no brood present.
Please forgive my rambling explanation - I have no doubt you could have explained it with 1/4 of the words
Richard

Good explanation. Thank you

 

[B+.]

The method Ralph Bulcher uses on his own bees (the 'caging' of the queens mentioned here is a popular Italian tactic with their bee farmers) is to allow the queen to continue laying on a single frame (usually just the one) in a QE covered frame. When capped he removes and replaces another to be laid up. He then does it a third time (about 1 week each frame) by which time there should be no other open brood in the hive. All 3 frames are removed and frozen, fed to chickens etc as soon as capped. His findings are its as effective as best commercial treatments and if done at the right time the lack of brood being fed can actually increase yields.
I haven't tried it yet but intending to 'blank off' 1 frame space at edge of BB with slide in QE this season.
The removed capped brood could be used to make up new colonies with a one time treatment when all emerged as there should be no brood present.
Please forgive my rambling explanation - I have no doubt you could have explained it with 1/4 of the words
Richard

Yeah. It's called a "Scalvini" cage (Queen cage - Scalvini )