Poll: Should it be legal to use the word "Raw" on labels to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey

[Sanntos]

By just looking at the jar?

Maybe not. When customers want quality in something how do they know it is quality? The customers who buys directly from the beekeeper knows the qualities, so it's clearly not about these.
Ideally it would be something, a small sign or something on the label, that can't be copied by the larger importers.

 

[Anduril]

In regard to the 40°C to liquefy the granulated honey. In the US, Bob Binnie has stated in his lectures that over 104°F (40°C) enzymes will degrade.

It's too late to ban it .. the cats already out of the bag ... better the devil you know than some new arbitrary term... just define it in terms of honey and be done with it. TS will never enforce a ban anyway ... so better follow Bob Dylan... the times they are a'changin !

But ... you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.

I've been in sales and marketing all my working life. The one thing you have to be cognisant of is what your customer PERCEIVES - it does not matter whether their perception is right, be it misguided, ill-informed or misled - if your product does not immediately meet their PERCEPTION then they won't progress to a purchase.

If, as most have admitted, their customers are seeking out RAW honey - they are more likely to gravitate towards a product that actually states it clearly than one that doesn't.

I fully accept that future purchases will depend upon taste and quality and repeat purchases go beyond PERCEPTION into reality.

Those of you resistant to the word raw should, perhaps, reconsider things from a consumer and marketing perspective. I do accept that raw has to have some statutory meaning and that products that do not meet whatever the standard set is need to be weeded out and prevented. I'm probably living a dream that this could happen in the imminent future but we should ALL be supporting the petiition that is now available to sign at:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/603996

You may not like it but the USA are already well down the path and what happens over there often comes across the pond .....

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324966#organic-honey

Bob Binnie is very wise in this lecture, there is a term 'US Grade A Fancy', which is abused and placed on products that have not come from the US, also he has seen the use of 'Ultra Raw', so as you say we follow the US down the path of a fancy mess.

 

[Finman]

When you put honey in your tea cup (40C), the enzymed will degraded. .. what then... what enzymes?

 

[pargyle]

In regard to the 40°C to liquefy the granulated honey. In the US, Bob Binnie has stated in his lectures that over 104°F (40°C) enzymes will degrade.


Bob Binnie is very wise in this lecture, there is a term 'US Grade A Fancy', which is abused and placed on products that have not come from the US, also he has seen the use of 'Ultra Raw', so as you say we follow the US down the path of a fancy mess.

But ... there are a couple of things you are missing here:

1. The USA is a federation of largely independent States when it comes to legislation - so getting anything centrally recognised or legislated on is an administrative nightmare - plus, with free movement from State to State the only things that become federal issues are those things that could affect the USA as a whole - anything else is closely guarded by State legislature.

2. We have the opportunity, as a nation, to legislate for something that makes commercial sense and to do it with the knowledge that our island of Great Britain could easily police. Preventing any further mess - and at present with the way things are we ARE heading for a mess !

 

[Anduril]

When you put honey in your tea cup (40C), the enzymed will degraded. .. what then... what enzymes?

https://images.app.goo.gl/6DthhgzZA9i1e7jFAOh Finnie eat it from a spoon

 

[Anduril]

But ... there are a couple of things you are missing here:

1. The USA is a federation of largely independent States when it comes to legislation - so getting anything centrally recognised or legislated on is an administrative nightmare - plus, with free movement from State to State the only things that become federal issues are those things that could affect the USA as a whole - anything else is closely guarded by State legislature.

2. We have the opportunity, as a nation, to legislate for something that makes commercial sense and to do it with the knowledge that our island of Great Britain could easily police. Preventing any further mess - and at present with the way things are we ARE heading for a mess !

Point 1 sums up all our little biddy TS's
Point 2 things are fine as they are.
Point 3 watch the video

 

[Finman]

https://images.app.goo.gl/6DthhgzZA9i1e7jFAOh Finnie eat it from a spoon

Anduril, can you answer

*Which of those enzymes are needed by humans?

*What enzymes a human can make?

*What happens to people who do not use honey?

* what happens to humans, who use too heated honey

 

[Finman]

Tupla

 

[pargyle]

Point 1 sums up all our little biddy TS's
Point 2 things are fine as they are.
Point 3 watch the video

Point 3 - I did, the whole 9 yards, nothing new there - his comments on what processing does to honey are very relevant. You product does have to stand up to customer PERCEPTION or they won't return for more.
Point 2 - Things are not fine as they are - there is no UK standard for Raw honey as the term has not been legitimised and cannot sensibly be policed. Indeed, there appears to be variations between TS in different locations about what is an what is not permissible.
Point 1 - We are not the USA with a large number of States - our Trading Standards people WILL police labelling if there is clarity, standardisation and where it is in the Public Interest.

I'm not sure whether the video or the points you make support or not the case for the petition... seems to me that Bob Binnie would support legislation for the term RAW HONEY !

 

[Anduril]

Anduril, can you answer

*Which of those enzymes are needed by humans?

*What enzymes a human can make?

*What happens to people who do not use honey?

* what happens to humans, who use too heated honey

I haven't claimed the enzymes are needed by humans, they are what determines honey.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

there is no UK standard for Raw honey as the term has not been legitimised

And shouldn't be

 

[Anduril]

Point 3 - I did, the whole 9 yards, nothing new there - his comments on what processing does to honey are very relevant. You product does have to stand up to customer PERCEPTION or they won't return for more.
Point 2 - Things are not fine as they are - there is no UK standard for Raw honey as the term has not been legitimised and cannot sensibly be policed. Indeed, there appears to be variations between TS in different locations about what is an what is not permissible.
Point 1 - We are not the USA with a large number of States - our Trading Standards people WILL police labelling if there is clarity, standardisation and where it is in the Public Interest.

I'm not sure whether the video or the points you make support or not the case for the petition... seems to me that Bob Binnie would support legislation for the term RAW HONEY !

He has highlighted the use of US Grade A Fancy which is used and abused and is now meaningless. The same with raw by adding a word infront of it such as ultra to make your honey appear better than raw, also implying your honey is better than your neighbour who just uses raw. The route this is going down will mean that you cannot use the word as a default, your honey will have to be submitted for testing every year and say a nice round figure of £1,000 to use the prestigious term. Looks good legislation to me, but then I am expressing the extreme route that could be taken, but don't expect a free lunch. Or a grading similar to Manuka, raw+1, raw+2 etc. Trading Standards will need this funding to police it.

 

[pargyle]

He has highlighted the use of US Grade A Fancy which is used and abused and is now meaningless. The same with raw by adding a word infront of it such as ultra to make your honey appear better than raw, also implying your honey is better than your neighbour who just uses raw. The route this is going down will mean that you cannot use the word as a default, your honey will have to be submitted for testing every year and say a nice round figure of £1,000 to use the prestigious term. Looks good legislation to me, but then I am expressing the extreme route that could be taken, but don't expect a free lunch. Or a grading similar to Manuka, raw+1, raw+2 etc. Trading Standards will need this funding to police it.

Straw arguments I'm afraid ... the sky may fall in chicken licken ...

 

[Anduril]

Straw arguments I'm afraid ... the sky may fall in chicken licken ...

LOL Don't be like an ostrich with it's head in the sand!

 

[Finman]

I haven't claimed the enzymes are needed by humans, they are what determines honey.

I bet that all those enzymes are in humans, and it does not harm, if we do not get them from honey.

Honey has a good taste, and that is why humans use it. And many other animals in the world.

My advice to all beekeepers is, that even if you keep bees, do not loose your brain.

 

[pargyle]

LOL Don't be like an ostrich with it's head in the sand!

Precisely ...

 

[Finman]

I haven't claimed the enzymes are needed by humans, they are what determines honey.

You tried to claim, but it did not succeed this time

 

[Anduril]

Precisely ...

I'll continue selling my honey as I always have, while watching the 'RAW' wars from afar. If you lack the acumen to sell your honey without the use of the word raw, then, there is no hope.

 

[pargyle]

I'll continue selling my honey as I always have, while watching the 'RAW' wars from afar. If you lack the acumen to sell your honey without the use of the word raw, then, there is no hope.

And I have no issue or argument with anyone doing what they feel is right for their honey and their sales ... and my sales have nothing to do with it.

My premise has always been from the first post in this thread that there is a need for the word raw to be defined in it's use on honey labels - at present it isn't but it is being used. The situation needs to be regularised and that's what the petition is all about.

 

[enrico]

I'll continue selling my honey as I always have, while watching the 'RAW' wars from afar. If you lack the acumen to sell your honey without the use of the word raw, then, there is no hope.

Wow! It is not a question of lacking the acumen. I am able to make good judgements and I do not make quick decisions, I choose to use the word raw to describe my honey. It is my choice because I am able to tell people what that word means if for some reason they do not understand it. I do it because it is a true and accurate description of the product I am selling.