Ply wood and beehive constrution.

[Newbeeneil]

I've been thinking this way myself.

This is my long hove in PIR and cedar.
I don't know where you are in Hampshire but I get my cedar from a sawmill on the Hants/Sussex border

 

[WalnutTreeBees]

I would also recommend making a long hive to take 14x12 national frames (Dartington style). The bees can still draw out free comb inside the frames - I usually alternate between frames of foundation and foundationless frames, which keeps the combs nice and straight. The ability to remove/manipulate frames is a massive benefit.

I also would not use ply. I would use some 2" timber which is readily available at woodyards or mills. Cedar would be first choice, then Larch, Douglas Fir, then there's the non durable softwoods which will need painting. With 2" boards you can just run a router along the edge to create a recess for the frames. You will obviously have to glue and clamp a few boards to get the required depth. I would use ply or thinner boards for the roof (to keep it light) as you want plenty of insulation under there anyway.

 

[Ian123]

Seconds boxes?

Most the big bee suppliers have sales..maismores have 1 running atm that I think continues till tonight, seconds boxes are made from a cheaper cedar than first grade they cost about £22 rather than the eye watering £60 odd!!

 

[madasafish]

Ply will - Repeat WILL - delaminate in our climate. Sealed ends will allow water entry.

Waste of time. And money.

 

[beemunn]

The higher the density of wood the higher the conductivity. Plywoods especially those with hardwoods e.g. marine conduct more than softwoods. Western red cedar is a low density wood and that is reflected in its low conductivity of 0.1 Wm^-1K^-1 ccompared to 0.2+ for hardwoods and hardwood based plywoods. For comparison polystyrene foam is 0.03 and PIR is 0.023.

Informative, thank you.

 

[beemunn]

Ply will - Repeat WILL - delaminate in our climate. Sealed ends will allow water entry.

Waste of time. And money.

I'm hearing you.

 

[Garry R]

I used two Swienty boxes. Construct three sides x2 (they come in the flat) and then use the spare side as infill. The finish is Ronseal wood stain and it is a great finish. See theavatar. Mine was National size but the 14 x 12" are as below and are about £34 each. It makes a cheap hive with about 30 frames!

https://gwenyngruffydd.co.uk/collec.../swienty-national-poly-hive-14-x-12-brood-box
Obviously you have to make the floor, roof etc but that is not difficult. If you want more photos of how I did it just ask. I rarely make my own brood boxes as my woodworking I fear is not accurate enough to get the correct beespace hence the poly boxes

 

[blackcloud]

Ply will - Repeat WILL - delaminate in our climate. Sealed ends will allow water entry.

Waste of time. And money.

Absolutely.
Unless it's marine ply.
But that is heavier and more expensive than cedar so unless you have a free source forget it.
One of the big local potato farms makes their bulk crates from marine ply and sells off the offcuts for pennies.
Over the years I've done countless projects with the stuff and no delamination whatsoever.I
Wouldn't use it If I had to pay properly though.

 

[Superlativesoul]

I've been using 18mm OBS 3 for my broods/supers. Edges sealed with Everbuild 501 and painted with Sandtex.
Frame runner area also gets sealed with 501.

Super tough.

Hi ,is the surfaces smooth enough for the bees or do they propolis all the surfaces so its smooth ,I've seen roofs constructed with it .
Thanks in advance John

 

[SWEET]

Hi ,is the surfaces smooth enough for the bees or do they propolis all the surfaces so its smooth ,I've seen roofs constructed with it .
Thanks in advance John

Smoothest side internally, only use very good board (SMARTPLY OSB) not B&Q etc rubbish

Boxes are around £8 each which includes metal runners and a routed pine frame (top/bottom recess) they are great as a cheap box if you needs lots. Lighter than pine boxes and super tough once sealed.

TOP TIP - pin them together with 50mm brads (tiny holes), the 501 makes them solid once set.

 

[Superlativesoul]

I used two Swienty boxes. Construct three sides x2 (they come in the flat) and then use the spare side as infill. The finish is Ronseal wood stain and it is a great finish. See theavatar. Mine was National size but the 14 x 12" are as below and are about £34 each. It makes a cheap hive with about 30 frames!

https://gwenyngruffydd.co.uk/collec.../swienty-national-poly-hive-14-x-12-brood-box
Obviously you have to make the floor, roof etc but that is not difficult. If you want more photos of how I did it just ask. I rarely make my own brood boxes as my woodworking I fear is not accurate enough to get the correct beespace hence the poly boxes

Smoothest side internally, only use very good board (SMARTPLY OSB) not B&Q etc rubbish

Boxes are around £8 each which includes metal runners and a routed pine frame (top/bottom recess) they are great as a cheap box if you needs lots. Lighter than pine boxes and super tough once sealed.

View attachment 35929View attachment 35930View attachment 35931cheers thank you for the pictures and info good to have other methods in the back pocket .The go to material is cedar which is difficult to obtain from normal timber merchants ,especially the sizes and thicknesses, can obviously source from bee hive manufacturers who more than likely have their own saw mill and possibly quite expensive so if you are on a budget and it works that is a big bonus.Once again many Thanks John

 

[rolande]

Hi ,is the surfaces smooth enough for the bees or do they propolis all the surfaces so its smooth ,I've seen roofs constructed with it .
Thanks in advance John

If I can add to DABOSS' answer to this question, having used osb for best part of a decade I've always liked the way our bees seem to apply a good quantity of propolis to the side walls, I suppose, to a bee even smooth osb3 is rough.

 

[beemunn]

Interesting. I've an old WBC hive full of 50 year old ply boxes and they look fine. My OSB 3 broods are lighter than the pine boxes. Built and sealed to a decent standard will last years and ideal as cheap/easy to make units.

good to know, thanks.

 

[rdartington]

Look up the Dartington Long Hive ... you are better off tailoring long hive to British national or 14 x 12 frames in the UK. Makes life simpler. Robin Dartington is a time served exponent of the Long Deep Hive and he's a member of this forum. His hives are made fom plywood.

My LDH was made from reclaimed solid timber and is triple walled - victorian pine for the interior skin with pallet wood exterior and a polystyrene core between the inner and outer walls.

My first ‘long’ hives for 14x12 frames, so ‘long deep’ were made in 1975 from floorboards recovered from a demolition site . The boards were slightly humped and I butted them alternately top in and top out , so got a rippled wide board. No good for a well-made hive -now used only to store frames.
So, not having a fully equiped workshop - as most beekeepers dont - I turned to 18mm plywood from the local builders merchant - as most beekeepers can do. I used shutter ply for a ‘long deep’ top-bar hive , and it is still fine after more than 40 years - but I prefer ordinary building ply for framed hives which de-laminates if frequently wetted. So all my equipment is simply painted, using Cuprinol Garden Shades, - huge range of colours, cheap, quick drying, easy to over paint. If the paint is touched up where drops form, delamination is simply not a problem. Where it does occur, due to my carelessness, water-proof glue is easily squeezed in and clamped tight while it sets.
I now add 25mm Celotex insulation, covered by 9mm slats , as ply is not a good insulator.

 

[beemunn]

My first ‘long’ hives for 14x12 frames, so ‘long deep’ were made in 1975 from floorboards recovered from a demolition site . The boards were slightly humped and I butted them alternately top in and top out , so got a rippled wide board. No good for a well-made hive -now used only to store frames.
So, not having a fully equiped workshop - as most beekeepers dont - I turned to 18mm plywood from the local builders merchant - as most beekeepers can do. I used shutter ply for a ‘long deep’ top-bar hive , and it is still fine after more than 40 years - but I prefer ordinary building ply for framed hives which de-laminates if frequently wetted. So all my equipment is simply painted, using Cuprinol Garden Shades, - huge range of colours, cheap, quick drying, easy to over paint. If the paint is touched up where drops form, delamination is simply not a problem. Where it does occur, due to my carelessness, water-proof glue is easily squeezed in and clamped tight while it sets.
I now add 25mm Celotex insulation, covered by 9mm slats , as ply is not a good insulator.

View attachment 35957

 

[beemunn]

My eyes are openned, thank you. Can you imagine your floorbording hive lined in 4mm ply with a 50mm cavity filled with expanding foam? That would have sorted the draughts.

I'm having difficulty understanding the workings of the Dartington hive in your photo, have you a loink that might help?

 

[rdartington]

My eyes are openned, thank you. Can you imagine your floorbording hive lined in 4mm ply with a 50mm cavity filled with expanding foam? That would have sorted the draughts.

I'm having difficulty understanding the workings of the Dartington hive in your photo, have you a loink that might help?

Draughts were not the problem with the floorboard hives - it was the variation in width of the bee space betwwen the frame sides and the rippling hive side.
You are absolutely right that lining the sides with thin ply would have worked - and by carrying the lining 9mm above the sides would have created the frame support. Where were you when I needed advice? At some time I might build a hive from pallet wood, and line the sides inside with 6mm ply.
I was exiled for giving free information on working the Dartington hive and left high and dry to start a new discussion, ‘Dartington hives’ . I haven’t yet added information to that new forum as yet as interest in anything Grandpa did not do is generally marginal - and I have no commercial interest in promoting the hive design that works for me. Should try to find the time. You can get ‘New Beekeeping in a Long Deep hive’, 2018, from Northern Bee Books for £15 if very keen - (I get no royalty, so not advertising!).
Basically, the DLD hive is two deep Nats for 14x12 frames butted back to back, and split back to two hives by inserting a divider. The supers are cut in half to reduce weight to be lifted. Any management diagram that is a vertical cut thru a Nat applies to a long deep hive viewed from above - if you can follow that.

 

[Newbeeneil]

My eyes are openned, thank you. Can you imagine your floorbording hive lined in 4mm ply with a 50mm cavity filled with expanding foam?

Be careful using expanding foam as the pressure causes thin ply to bulge!
I used a 1/2” ply nuc with correx around the outside fixed to battens and injected the space with expanding foam.
The result was a nuc that could have been used as a football!