Ply wood and beehive constrution.

[beemunn]

Hi you all, new guy on the block.

I'm trying to obtaine the right materials for building a Dr Leo Sheraskin deep long hive and he mentions having to use 9mm fomaldehyde free ply. Sadly in the UK, that's not at all standard as it appears to be in the States. Is there anyone in UK who has built a plywood insulated hive and can tell me what plywood they used and was it safe for the bees?

 

[Ian123]

If you can afford it just use marine ply….. for the rest of us morals WBP ply from a good wood yard……..you will have to seal edges dip any cut edges in preservative you can fill any voids in laminations with water proof pva and then top coat of your choice.

 

[beemunn]

Thank you for that Ian. Ive found an otpion of "9mm Poplar Throughout Ply," from Panguneta supplied by Hansons ply but its not exteriro ply or WPB. The latter sounds as if it migh have better longevity.

 

[Ian123]

Thank you for that Ian. Ive found an otpion of "9mm Poplar Throughout Ply," from Panguneta supplied by Hansons ply but its not exteriro ply or WPB. The latter sounds as if it migh have better longevity.

Good ply with sealed edges will last but be pedantic in treatment of the edges/exposed laminate and protect areas from sitting in moisture or long term damp contact. It should last you well enough.
Is there a reason you’re going for a long hive I’ve had a number over the years, but you really can’t beat seconds boxes for cost and ease.

 

[SWEET]

I've been using 18mm OBS 3 for my broods/supers. Edges sealed with Everbuild 501 and painted with Sandtex.
Frame runner area also gets sealed with 501.

Super tough.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Goodness - just googled the sheraskin 'long hive'
save your work and money, invest in a decent hive, as Ian - look at second quality hives from Maisie's or Thornes

 

[Ian123]

Goodness - just googled the sheraskin 'long hive'
save your work and money, invest in a decent hive, as Ian - look at second quality hives from Maisie's or Thornes

I’ve knocked up long hives before and very simple ones, a friend also had a teaching apiary and had 4 or 5 along with many other hive types. They’re fine but box type hives are the main stay for a reason.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’ve knocked up long hives before and very simple ones, a friend also had a teaching apiary and had 4 or 5 along with many other hive types. They’re fine but box type hives are the main stay for a reason.

it's fine for the dilettante who likes to fiddle, but if you want to go for a 'long' framed hive, then do it properly and have something at least three feet long, National deep format and work it the same as the KTBH

 

[Newbeeneil]

After making up nucs of 18mm ply I would never recommend using it for any hives. It’s extremely heavy and very susceptible to damp!!
I made my long hive from units of 50mm PIR sandwiched between 12mm cedar boards.

 

[user 6228]

The higher the density of wood the higher the conductivity. Plywoods especially those with hardwoods e.g. marine conduct more than softwoods. Western red cedar is a low density wood and that is reflected in its low conductivity of 0.1 Wm^-1K^-1 ccompared to 0.2+ for hardwoods and hardwood based plywoods. For comparison polystyrene foam is 0.03 and PIR is 0.023.

 

[pargyle]

Hi you all, new guy on the block.

I'm trying to obtaine the right materials for building a Dr Leo Sheraskin deep long hive and he mentions having to use 9mm fomaldehyde free ply. Sadly in the UK, that's not at all standard as it appears to be in the States. Is there anyone in UK who has built a plywood insulated hive and can tell me what plywood they used and was it safe for the bees?

Look up the Dartington Long Hive ... you are better off tailoring long hive to British national or 14 x 12 frames in the UK. Makes life simpler. Robin Dartington is a time served exponent of the Long Deep Hive and he's a member of this forum. His hives are made fom plywood.

My LDH was made from reclaimed solid timber and is triple walled - victorian pine for the interior skin with pallet wood exterior and a polystyrene core between the inner and outer walls.

So been there, seen the movie and got the T-shirt. There's a lot of advantages in working with Long hives and there's plenty of people around on here who have or have had them. Don't be put off but try and avoid re-inventing the wheel with a design from a different country.

 

[SWEET]

After making up nucs of 18mm ply I would never recommend using it for any hives. It’s extremely heavy and very susceptible to damp!!
I made my long hive from units of 50mm PIR sandwiched between 12mm cedar boards.

Interesting. I've an old WBC hive full of 50 year old ply boxes and they look fine. My OSB 3 broods are lighter than the pine boxes. Built and sealed to a decent standard will last years and ideal as cheap/easy to make units.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Interesting. I've an old WBC hive full of 50 year old ply boxes and they look fine. My OSB 3 broods are lighter than the pine boxes. Built and sealed to a decent standard will last years and ideal as cheap/easy to make units.

Oh course since the boxes are protected by the outer cedar lifts. If ply gets any moisture between the laminates its ruined.

 

[Ian123]

Oh course since the boxes are protected by the outer cedar lifts. If ply gets any moisture between the laminates its ruined.

Yes ply would be well protected inside outer lifts, ply does not do well in contact with moisture that’s a simple fact. However I have a good number of nuc boxes at least 15 years old made of ply going strong. There not all great some have delaminated in areas and the thinner floors have come apart. However the majority are still usable. With proper construction and a little care they have lasted!
Much will depend on the original ply quality and the effort you put into the original construction.

 

[SWEET]

Oh course since the boxes are protected by the outer cedar lifts. If ply gets any moisture between the laminates its ruined.

But they would have been full of bees and plenty of moisture exposure for decades. As long as sealed/painted i'm sure it'll last till the OP gets bored and moves onto something else. Anyway i'd use OBS 3, far better than ply in moisture prone environments. I'd left a couple of old spare ply inner boxes from that WBC hive outside over winter, look fine and guess far better marine ply back in the day.

 

[beemunn]

Good ply with sealed edges will last but be pedantic in treatment of the edges/exposed laminate and protect areas from sitting in moisture or long term damp contact. It should last you well enough.
Is there a reason you’re going for a long hive I’ve had a number over the years, but you really can’t beat seconds boxes for cost and ease.

Seconds boxes?

 

[beemunn]

After making up nucs of 18mm ply I would never recommend using it for any hives. It’s extremely heavy and very susceptible to damp!!
I made my long hive from units of 50mm PIR sandwiched between 12mm cedar boards.

I've been thinking this way myself.

 

[beemunn]

Yes ply would be well protected inside outer lifts, ply does not do well in contact with moisture that’s a simple fact. However I have a good number of nuc boxes at least 15 years old made of ply going strong. There not all great some have delaminated in areas and the thinner floors have come apart. However the majority are still usable. With proper construction and a little care they have lasted!
Much will depend on the original ply quality and the effort you put into the original construction.

Taking all this on board, thanks.

 

[beemunn]

it's fine for the dilettante who likes to fiddle, but if you want to go for a 'long' framed hive, then do it properly and have something at least three feet long, National deep format and work it the same as the KTBH

I find your assumption rather rude

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Seconds boxes?

yes - highly recommended