Oxalic - probably a silly question . . .

[For want of a better word]

I wonder how many beekeepers using it regularly year after year with no apparent ill effects end up a decade later with kidney damage or cardiovascular problems?
Time will tell.

Probably the second hand cigarette smoke and polluting VW diesel cars will get you first!!!

Nos da

 

[madasafish]

I wonder how many beekeepers using it regularly year after year with no apparent ill effects end up a decade later with kidney damage or cardiovascular problems?
Time will tell.

Probably the second hand cigarette smoke and polluting VW diesel cars will get you first!!!

Nos da

Regular binge drinking will damage your kidneys - which means Newcastle/Sunderland drinkers.. and diabetes is caused by obesity - so that's 40% of the population or 25 million who are a drain on the NHS.

By comparison OA usage might affect 2% of all beekeepers - so say 500 people. Tops.

 

[thenovice]

As I posted here before, Oxalic acid is NOT a very Toxic substance. the dose recommended for sublimation is equivalent to what you consume in less than half a kilo of carrots.

it is however an acid and will be unpleasant in its pure form just like vinegar is something you do not want to inhale in its pure form. So general caution is advised but as long as you stand clear of the fumes and do not allow prolonged exposure to the skin, I see no problem.

 

[madasafish]

As I posted here before, Oxalic acid is NOT a very Toxic substance. the dose recommended for sublimation is equivalent to what you consume in less than half a kilo of carrots.

it is however an acid and will be unpleasant in its pure form just like vinegar is something you do not want to inhale in its pure form. So general caution is advised but as long as you stand clear of the fumes and do not allow prolonged exposure to the skin, I see no problem.

You sound almost cavalier in the above. I am sure you are not. OA vapour causes irreparable lung damage when ingested.. Not something I wish to do.

 

[robinharman]

always use a mask

 

[seaknight]

We do. We don't vapourise them though. Just wanted to highlight the need to be careful and think of the consequences....

And our H&S bloke at work wanted to do a risk assessment and a procedure on the dishwasher tablets for cleaning our mugs each day! (Somewhat over the top - but he saw the little cross on the packaging and got excited!).

Perspective is important, water is toxic - if anyone drinks a few gallons of water, their kidneys will not be able to excrete it quickly enough and they die, fact.
It's not just the potency of the substance but the handling (or mishandling) of it.

My A Level chemistry teacher was a health and safety nut, the other who visited for a 3 hour block once a week had retired several times, he was in his 70s and produced various noxious vapours by heating compounds on the open bench when a fume cupboard should have been used, between them we had a half decent teacher!

 

[Little John]

Oxalic acid in its gaseous form if deadly if inhaled. There have been documented deaths from this. In it's solid form it is harmless

RUBBISH.

When heated to it's sublimation temperature, Oxalic Acid vapourises - i.e. it becomes, for all intents and purposes, a gas. But that state only lasts until it drops back down below it's sublimation temperature - which will occur within (say) half an inch or so of the applicator's high temperature surface.
The white cloud you see is NOT a gas (which is invisible), but is Oxalic Acid having returned to it's solid form - that's why it's visible. The change it has undergone is from being a dihydrate (a 'clumpy', rather 'damp' and heavy crystalline substance) into a light, fine, micro-crystalline dust. Which is why a dust-filter mask is all that is required for personal protection against inhalation.

Thus, it is impossible to inhale OA in it's gaseous form - but - it is extremely dangerous to inhale Vapourised (past-tense) Oxalic Acid - that is, in it's micro-crystalline dust form.

LJ

 

[Hivemaker.]

Oxalic acid in its gaseous form if deadly if inhaled. There have been documented deaths from this.

Would you please list these documented deaths caused directly as a result of beekeepers or others sublimating oxalic acid .

 

[seaknight]

Regular binge drinking will damage your kidneys - which means Newcastle/Sunderland drinkers.. and diabetes is caused by obesity - so that's 40% of the population or 25 million who are a drain on the NHS.

By comparison OA usage might affect 2% of all beekeepers - so say 500 people. Tops.

Alcohol abuse affects the liver a lot more than it affects the kidneys, causing cirrhosis. The liver can regenerate and repair itself, but only up to a point before the damage is irreversible.
A liver that's been donated can be cut into different parts, with each part given to a separate patient.
Binge drinking is a lot worse than regular drinking according to lectures from the pathologists at my local teaching hospital.

"Diabetes caused by obesity" - yeah there's some truth in that - we used to think that fat cells (adipocytes) just sat around and didn't do much apart from act as energy storage, now we know that fat (adipose tissue) secretes hormones that exert an effect on the human body, causing things like insulin resistance and so on. Genetic predisposition to diabetes (e.g. first degree relative who is diabetic) is a big factor as well as Western diet, lack of exercise, etc.

 

[seaknight]

Would you please list these documented deaths caused directly as a result of beekeepers or others sublimating oxalic acid .

There's far too much alarmist hype sometimes.

 

[Millet]

There's far too much alarmist hype sometimes.

I have had a good waft of it twice and i am still here,it is not nice stuff but i would not call it deadly.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Until you need oxygen 24/7

 

[Eyeman]

I have had a good waft of it twice and i am still here,it is not nice stuff but i would not call it deadly.

Talk us through your experience Millet.
I'm always wearing a mask so subject to equipment failure I shouldn't share your experience.

 

[Millet]

Talk us through your experience Millet.
I'm always wearing a mask so subject to equipment failure I shouldn't share your experience.

Have you ever breathed smoke in when burning car tyres or a old three piece suite with non fire proof the foam, its not as bad as that, it is also not as bad as ammonia/sulphuric acid or formaldehyde, oxalic acid just catches your breath and after a quick splutter everything is fine, the other ones i mentioned take your breath away make your eyes water and burn the back of your nose, after about 5 minutes the symptoms disappear, well they do for me, all this safety hype about oxalic acid makes me laugh, i have washed wood work with a strong solution on with bare hands and all it does is sting new cuts, make your own mind up on how far you want to go with Health and saftey, i am probably full of asbestosis so that week acid formula is the least of my worries.

 

[Millet]

Until you need oxygen 24/7

If i live long enough it certainly will not be Oxalic Acid i need oxygen for..

 

[Karsal]

Anyone who starts up a diesel car in a garage ,drives it out, and then goes back inside the garage again is shortening their lung lifespan by inhaling micro particles (and oxides of Nitrogen) from diesel fumes... exacerbated when the engine is cold..

Strangely enough, no-one warns you.

Especially if it's a VW