Oxalic Acid.

[Spikedog]

To date I have used Api-Bioxal by way of Varrox vaporiser. Thinking of going GasVap. Is all OA of the same concentration – safe for Bee usage? If so, can Oxalic Acid be purchased other than in the Api-Bioxal formula/packaging?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It can - but it is illegal to use it for treating bees for varroa

 

[Repwoc]

It's illegal in the UK - not sure about Ireland.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Depends where in Ireland I suppose

 

[Heather]

I have used the Gas-Vap, with 1/2 tsp oxalic crystals per hive. So fast to treat load of hives. Did late December
All bees safely though winter, and now-in drone brood developed from my super frame in the BB, I have yet to see any varroa.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I have used the Gas-Vap, with 1/2 tsp oxalic crystals per hive.

Steady - walls have ears you know!

As JMB observed above, it is an offence to use an unauthorised veterinary medicine.

CVB

 

[Poly Hive]

Ask ITLD.........

PH

 

[Heather]

They need to get up to speed!. If used with safety equipment for the bee keeper it is fine. bees safe, treatment works..

 

[Newbeeneil]

Steady - walls have ears you know!

As JMB observed above, it is an offence to use an unauthorised veterinary medicine.

CVB

I'm sure the OA was used just for cleaning the hive!

 

[pargyle]

They need to get up to speed!. If used with safety equipment for the bee keeper it is fine. bees safe, treatment works..

Yes ... makes you wonder what the BBKA are doing.

The problem is that registering a treatment with the VMD is very expensive and nobody is going to stump up for generic OA to be licensed as then everyone can buy it from anywhere at the pennies it costs - no return on the investment. If the BBKA had any sense they would pay for the licensing and then sell OA specifically for beekeepers at a reasonable price with the profits going to the BBKA.

Why do you think that the only 'legitimate' treatment has a 'unique' formulation ...

In the meantime I understand a lot of beekeepers are cleaning their hives with the bees in situ by using OA by sublimation ... leaves VERY clean hives.

 

[Ian123]

Yes ... makes you wonder what the BBKA are doing.

The problem is that registering a treatment with the VMD is very expensive and nobody is going to stump up for generic OA to be licensed as then everyone can buy it from anywhere at the pennies it costs - no return on the investment. If the BBKA had any sense they would pay for the licensing and then sell OA specifically for beekeepers at a reasonable price with the profits going to the BBKA.

Why do you think that the only 'legitimate' treatment has a 'unique' formulation ...

In the meantime I understand a lot of beekeepers are cleaning their hives with the bees in situ by using OA by sublimation ... leaves VERY clean hives.

You’ve hit the nail on the head!! They could be using the donations from the bees are dying save the bee............for something practical for the members. Others can decide at what point to insert the words rip off.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes ... makes you wonder what the BBKA are doing.

giving each other cistificts, badges and pompous titles.

Next thing, it will be medals

 

[ericbeaumont]

Yes ... makes you wonder what the BBKA are doing.

My understanding is that at the time, the BBKA supported the proposal to ban cheap and effective OA and replace it with the more expensive and inefficient ApiBioxal (containing cheap and effective OA, but with added gunk).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My understanding is that at the time, the BBKA supported the proposal to ban cheap and effective OA and replace it with the more expensive and inefficient ApiBioxal (containing cheap and effective OA, but with added gunk).

Glad to see the power of the brown envelope still holds sway

 

[Mint Bee]

OA license costs

This old chestnut. Have any of you any idea how much it would cost to get Oxalic acid licensed?
VMD charge up to £20k for application dependent on how the license is structured. That is after the 10’s of thousands it would cost to put the license together, unless BBKA had people in their ranks to do what they can for free. If approved, need to have a pharmacovigilance structure in place and file various annual reports back to the competent authority (VMD)
All the work could be contracted out, but it’s not cheap.
And at the end of the day, for many beekeepers to advocate cleaning their hives with generic OA instead. For clarity I’m not a member of the BBKA, but felt a bit of balance was needed.
Tin hat time?

 

[mbc]

Glad to see the power of the brown envelope still holds sway

Corporate brown nosers, should take a hard look at themselves, it wouldn't take a massive leap to challenge the established pathways to get generic organic acids licenced, it's happened elsewhere in Europe where we might expect stricter adherence to red tape.
It's time we stood up to this Anglo American special relationship 1% billionaires dictating our lives.

 

[pargyle]

This old chestnut. Have any of you any idea how much it would cost to get Oxalic acid licensed?
VMD charge up to £20k for application dependent on how the license is structured. That is after the 10’s of thousands it would cost to put the license together, unless BBKA had people in their ranks to do what they can for free. If approved, need to have a pharmacovigilance structure in place and file various annual reports back to the competent authority (VMD)
All the work could be contracted out, but it’s not cheap.
And at the end of the day, for many beekeepers to advocate cleaning their hives with generic OA instead. For clarity I’m not a member of the BBKA, but felt a bit of balance was needed.
Tin hat time?

If the BBKA were to accept the research done at Suussex University on the effectiveness of OA by submlimation and start recommending to members that they use this method and then canvassed those members interested in legalising the process and asked them for a contribution or set up a crowd funder I'm pretty sure the cost (with perhaps a contribution from the BBKA) would not be an issue. Let's face it .. Ron Hoskins has had over £25k of contributions on a crowd funder to replace his research into treatment free bees .. a crowd funder to help reduce Varroa advertised to all UK beekeepers with an objective to legalising OA treatment is a no brainer ..

Perhaps, if they haven't got round to it by the time I retire I might well do it myself .. PARGYLE's legacy to beekeeping ! (All the more as I don't treat my bees !!). I will then spend my retirement sellling generic OA at a reasonable price with the special ingredient Oofledust ...

 

[Mint Bee]

the power of Oofledust....

Nice thought Phil, but I don’t think the BBKA has the organisation cohesion & capability to co-ordinate this. Maybe I'm being harsh, but there always seems to be be too many factions. I think it was Swarm on another thread that called beekeeping a selfish hobby?
And Oofledust would require extensive testing for introduction into a food producing species (also not a generic then)

 

[Murox]

I always thought that imbecilic and asinine regulations were there to be .......

 

[pargyle]

I always thought that imbecilic and asinine regulations were there to be .......

Rules are there for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools ...

Attributed to Harry Day - World War 1 Flying ace.