Oxalic Acid.

[Spikedog]

Many thanks for the replies/advice. I was aware of the legalities applying. JBM is (as expected) correct his comments a) as to the legalities and b) the regulation differing in parts of the Island. Where I am, Bee treatment is ‘technically’ strictly regulated. Bee Keeping Suppliers register for specific products coming under the legislation. Some confine themselves to say Apiguard whereas others are licensed to sell Api-bioxal (and other treatments). Initially one could only purchase Api-Bioxal in or about the late Autumn; reflecting winter application times. I’m uncertain if this still applies. In any event, Names and Addresses of purchasers are recorded as are the product serial numbers. The same id. numbers are to be entered in Hive Records. Whereas the latter to my knowledge is not policed (Limited Bee Inspector Service) the suppliers are. I witnessed Department Officials arriving for stock reconciliation and registrations. This led to the prohibition of selling Apiguard in units of less than 10 i.e., one is obliged to purchase the full box.

Anyways, that’s the position whatever the sense behind same. My question arose by reason of considering purchasing Gas-Vap and the practice noted on the forum of Beek’s carrying out multiple treatments over a period of weeks in spring/summer. As the manufacturer (Api-Bioxal) advises application during brood less periods, I reasoned (wrongly it appears) that Oxalic acid might have come in differing strengths/quantities and yes, costs! allowing this practice. Chemistry is not my forte. Thanks again for the advice … Oh will go for the GasVap hopefully the A-Bioxal gunge won’t be bothersome.

 

[Reentrant]

It can - but it is illegal to use it for treating bees for varroa

Is "not approved" the same as illegal?

Either way you're supposed to get a Home Office licence to possess oxalic acid crystals or >10% solution.

 

[Mint Bee]

Scientific guidelines
The European Medicines Agency's Committee for Medicinal Products for Veterinary Use prepares scientific guidelines in consultation with regulatory authorities in the European Union (EU) Member States, to help applicants prepare marketing authorisation applications for veterinary medicines. Guidelines reflect a harmonised approach of the EU Member States and the Agency on how to interpret and apply the requirements for the demonstration of quality, safety and efficacy set out in the Community directives.

The Agency strongly encourages applicants and marketing authorisation holders to follow these guidelines. Applicants need to justify deviations from guidelines fully in their applications at the time of submission. Before that, they should seek scientific advice, to discuss any proposed deviations during medicine development.

same guidelines will be in place for UK applications, though VMD once/if we leave EU. From experience, most agencies are open to discussion on how you reach consensus on getting an application approvable.
Main problem IMHO is that there is no money in a generic OA for anyone who goes to the effort of getting a license (with the post approval commitments), as demonstrated on this forum, by the preference for hive cleaning using any product available.

Would same people switch to a licensed OA that would in inevitably cost more?

 

[Murox]

.............snip............. Main problem IMHO is that there is no money in a generic OA for anyone who goes to the effort of getting a license (with the post approval commitments), as demonstrated on this forum, by the preference for hive cleaning using any product available.

Would same people switch to a licensed OA that would in inevitably cost more?

Not unless the marketing was right for the gullible.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is "not approved" the same as illegal?

Either way you're supposed to get a Home Office licence to possess oxalic acid crystals or >10% solution.

unless your a commercial entity

 

[Repwoc]

Would same people switch to a licensed OA that would in inevitably cost more?

Isn't that what ApiBioxal is?

 

[Repwoc]

Either way you're supposed to get a Home Office licence to possess oxalic acid crystals or >10% solution.

Presumably that would also apply to ApiBioxal.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Presumably that would also apply to ApiBioxal.

No - that's fine as it's a licenced product. It's just bags of neat OA that's the issue.
It's an unfotrunate series of events really, OA is on the list because it's a poison. HMG (or the civil servants) in their wisdom quite rightly tightened up the controls to keep a firm hold on movements of explosives precursors for anti terrorist reasons but in their usual blanket kneejerk reaction didn't think that things like OA which they weren't interested in would be lumped in with everything else.
The irony is ingredients actually used in terror attacks such as 7/7 are not on the precursors list and (covid panic buying aside) bare readily available in Tesco and many corner shops!!!

 

[drex]

@ Spikedog . Api Bioxal has sugars in it which do grunge up any device which heats it up. Some folks apparently put tin foil in the pan of passive vapourisers to avoid this

 

[Repwoc]

No - that's fine as it's a licenced product. It's just bags of neat OA that's the issue.

OK - that's not obvious in the page linked to by Reentrant.

Since Phenols are also on the list, that could/may/likely include Thymol too.

OA is on the list because it's a poison.

It does seem to be a little crazy. Millions of chemicals are poisons, and 10% aq. OA is still poisonous.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It does seem to be a little crazy. Millions of chemicals are poisons, and 10% aq. OA is still poisonous.

It's the usual story in this country, instead of looking at the act in its entirety when a new issue comes up and amending/replacing the whole thing they just strap on an addendum not realising that in a lot of cases many other 'innocent' things are affected by a few extra words.
When I was in Customs, one act which we used fairly regularly originally came on the statute books in the 1800's. nowadays only one paragraph in the whole thing is extant so the whole act is still there but with red lines struck through almost all of it - even the one remaining bit is an archaic way to deal with a modern issue but it has to remain otherwise it would negate some essential modern regulations.