Orchard planting

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BoothBees

Dyslexic Keebeeper
Joined
Nov 21, 2022
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Location
UK
Hive Type
Langstroth
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I'm in the process of buying 9.5 acres of land. While the primary purpose is for grazing two horses, I've secured some of the land for planting an Orchard and, possibly, a wild-flower meadow.

I'm researching various trees for planting in the Orchard and have been considering what to plant based on:
  • whether I want to eat it or can use it;
  • when it flowers; and
  • when it fruits.
Here's a table I've pulled together for this purpose:

1669199224360.png
I've already picked out a few trees/bushes that I will definitely plant:
  • Hazel - it's an early flowering tree and I have a use for them.
  • Apple trees - I have uses for just about any variety, and they can even be fed to the horses in limited quantities.
  • Blackthorn - it's a relatively early flowering tree and my wife wants to make sloe gin.
  • Sweet Chestnut - it's a later flowering tree and the nuts are edible, though it's very large and will be planted separately to the orchard.
Based on what I've researched, or based on what you know to be good for bees and/or good for using with honey in recipes, what would you plant?

Are there any earlier or later flowering trees I should consider?

Thanks,
BB
 
Dont chop down any existing trees would be a good starter.
Willow and hazel provide coppicing material for hedging type projects and early pollen for the bees.
Perhaps set aside a section of grassland to put over to clover
Elderly trees will bear ivy which is an important late source for many insects including the bees.
Stacks of old decaying timber and a water resevoir of some kind provide a home for bacteria which is a base for the rest of the food chain.
 
I'd chose something better for my apple trees - plenty of old traditional apple varieties out there - for eaters and cooking, Lanes Prince Albert is one which I think is far superior to Bramley as a cooker
 
I was told that Sweet Chestnut should be planted away from an orchard and not in it
 
Willow, Hawthorn.
Thanks, I'll check those out. :)
Dont chop down any existing trees would be a good starter.
Oh I won't, don't worry. My wife was eyeing up an old Sycamore (they're toxic to horses), but I've persuaded her that we can manage it by raking the seeds up. The horses would have to eat them in abundance for there to be an issue. I dislike removing any trees without good cause.
I'd chose something better for my apple trees - plenty of old traditional apple varieties out there - for eaters and cooking, Lanes Prince Albert is one which I think is far superior to Bramley as a cooker
I'm no apple connoisseur, so I'll take your advice and check them out. Any others? :)
I was told that Sweet Chestnut should be planted away from an orchard and not in it
I agree with this - for starters it's going to be huge, which will compete with the smaller trees, and it spreads very well.
 
I'm no apple connoisseur, so I'll take your advice and check them out. Any others?
google a few heritage apple sites Golden delicious is (IMHO) an awful bland supermarket style variety (and not even British) try theorchardproject.org.uk or a list here: English Apple Varieties Master List - Descriptions, Ripening Dates, Best Uses and more you can't go wrong with things like egremont russet, cox's orange pippins or beauty of bath. Of course, if you want to venture into cider making there's always wonderful varieties like the old Gloucester 'hen's turd' apple.
most of the remaining apple trees in my garden are well over a century old (apart from the prince Albert which I planted to replace the original one which was failing) I do have the name of the other desert apple that I have, which is superb it's written down in a notebook I have which is at the moment hidden in one of those 'safe places' but I believe it is one of the varieties which was very popular back then and still is now.
 
Agree with JBM regarding the apples. Bramley is ok, but not outstanding, and usually turns to mush when cooked whereas I prefer something that holds its shape a little. And Golden Delicious is certainly far from the best you can get.

Amongst others I have Egremont Russet, Blenheim Orange, Ashmead's Kernel and Ellison's Orange. The first three can be used in cooking as well as for eating. In my opinion, Ashmead's Kernel is an absolutely outstanding apple. Egremont Russet and Ashmead's Kernel also keep very well though they don't tend to last that long here, partly because I juice a lot of them. It is nice to have a Cox (and we do), but they can be a bit temperamental and disease-prone so may do well in some environments and not so brilliantly in others.

If you want an early dessert variety then a little against type I think Katy is very good. The red colour of the skin bleeds into the flesh of the apple a little, a bit like the Pink Lady variety sometimes found in supermarkets. I'm told Thatchers actually use them for making cider which was quite a surprise when I found out, but I believe it's more of a "teenager-friendly" type of cider rather than a traditional style.

In case you weren't aware, with many fruit trees you also need to pay attention to the pollination requirements. They're generally split into groups by variety and need another tree from the same group (or sometimes even two) for pollination. The crab apple should hopefully help a bit with that. And whilst they're a bit of a pain to pick, crab apple jelly is lovely with meat.

As a general rule for apples and pears I'd definitely look at the traditional English "heritage" varieties first. When they were developed people had different requirements and a bland fruit wouldn't have found favour regardless of the requirements of the modern supermarkets :) If you're going to go to the effort of storing apples and pears properly and individually checking them week or two throughout the late autumn and winter for bad ones, you don't want to be wasting your time on something that doesn't taste good.

As regards the other fruits, my understanding is (I've never grown them myself) that peaches and apricots are quite tender and may well need protecting from frost over the winter. They may well be better suited to a garden (particularly if sheltered by a north-facing wall) than an open orchard. Blueberries require acidic soil, which may be a pain to maintain (and as far as I recall you need more than one). Many people seem to grow them in pots of ericaceous compost. I'd like to grow them, but I can't be doing with pots as I have enough stuff to look after as it is and I've not found a practical way to grow them in the ground here as yet (our soil is not acidic). Quinces can suffer badly in damp summers. We often don't get fruit from ours because of a bacterial infection that spreads through the leaves turning them brown in damp weather. I've not found an effective and practical control as yet. Oh, and be aware that depending on your age you may not live long enough to see a good crop from the walnut :) I believe that, somewhat like perry pears, they were traditionally trees that were planted for the grandchildren :D Ours is at least ten years old now and I counted a dozen nuts this year, all of which got nabbed by squirrels (I assume) before I got my hands on even one of them. Don't let that put you off planting one though.

James
 
Sycamore is good spring nectar and pollen source for bees, my 2021 sample showed pollen analysis of 22%.

Mature ivy of 10 years of age starts flowering.
 
Sycamore is good spring nectar and pollen source for bees, my 2021 sample showed pollen analysis of 22%.
That's good, as there are a few nearby. :)
Mature ivy of 10 years of age starts flowering.
I'm going to walk the perimeter this weekend and see if there's any ivy.

I've heard it changes the colour, consistency and taste of the honey. Is that true?
 
Here's a preliminary plan of the land usage:

1669220337761.png

Each paddock is 1 acre large.

The area marked in pale yellow is classes as agricultural land. We can graze the horses on it or we can cut it for hay. It's on that land I plan to plant the orchard, next to the paddocks, effectively creating a productive barrier between the two. Allowing for one tree every 5 meters, planted in pairs, it's up to 48 trees.

Then all I need to do is decide where to keep the hives. Are there any disadvantages to them being under the trees?
 
I'd chose something better for my apple trees - plenty of old traditional apple varieties out there - for eaters and cooking, Lanes Prince Albert is one which I think is far superior to Bramley as a cooker
Don't know about the other varieties but the large fruit on Bramleys are best described as oven busters. Saves loads of peeling and coring compared to smaller stuff.😃😋
 
Agree with JBM regarding the apples. Bramley is ok, but not outstanding, and usually turns to mush when cooked whereas I prefer something that holds its shape a little. And Golden Delicious is certainly far from the best you can get.

Amongst others I have Egremont Russet, Blenheim Orange, Ashmead's Kernel and Ellison's Orange. The first three can be used in cooking as well as for eating. In my opinion, Ashmead's Kernel is an absolutely outstanding apple. Egremont Russet and Ashmead's Kernel also keep very well though they don't tend to last that long here, partly because I juice a lot of them. It is nice to have a Cox (and we do), but they can be a bit temperamental and disease-prone so may do well in some environments and not so brilliantly in others.
Fully agree about Ashmead's Kernel, they're a superb apple and I savoured the last one at the weekend. I grow Sunset and Fiesta as Cox alternatives but had more success with Kidds Orange Red. D'arcy Spice and a couple of russet types add some variety.
I also don't bother with Bramley, easily available locally if needed. We've got through a lot of Blenheim Orange, Charles Ross, Newton Wonder and Edward VII from the garden so far this autumn, all slightly different in taste and cooking performance.
I find pears temperamental, Onward yielded well for the first time (8 year old tree), and they go from ripe to rotten very quickly, even if picked 'green'.
 
I was told that Sweet Chestnut should be planted away from an orchard and not in it

If Sweet chestnut is coppiced it produces great fencing materials, a useful source for repairing around the paddocks?
 
Sycamore is good spring nectar and pollen source for bees, my 2021 sample showed pollen analysis of 22%.

They are, and not just for honey bees -- I see loads of bumble bees on ours. They spread like weeds and smother other trees though, so I'd hesitate about planting more.

James
 

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