Of relevance to everyone

[Parsonage Bees]

I'm trying to remember the name of those cages. I think it's scalpini (I'm probably miss-remembering but it's something like that). They're a bit like a Nicot cage but smaller

I'm going to have to watch them again too. Think it would be better to keep queen laying on one frame at a time in a frame trap than stopping her laying completely for 25 days (?).

Quick Google for 'italian queen cage' found this http://www.apimobru.com/var-control-cage-mozzato/?lang=en

 

[B+.]

I'm going to have to watch them again too. Think it would be better to keep queen laying on one frame at a time in a frame trap than stopping her laying completely for 25 days (?).

Quick Google for 'italian queen cage' found this http://www.apimobru.com/var-control-cage-mozzato/?lang=en

OK. That's not the one I was told about but it looks right

This is the one I was talking about ([https://www.holtermann-shop.de/Varroa---Reinigung/Varroa-Brutstopp-641/ ) - scalvini (I was pretty close with the name). If you wanted less than 5, this may be a better link for you (https://www.holtermann-shop.de/Koen...ge/SIPA---Varroa-Kontroll-Kaestchen-7135.html )

 

[SDM]

Thorne sell them too

https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=8891

 

[SDM]

I'm going to have to watch them again too. Think it would be better to keep queen laying on one frame at a time in a frame trap than stopping her laying completely for 25 days ]

No need to wait 25 days, 14 days will give you a sealed brood break. Follow that with a single oxalic treatment for max effect. If you didn't want to treat then I'm not sure if it would push a significant amount of mites into an extended phoretic period, but at just 14 days disturbance it could be repeated pre and post swarm season.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

No need to wait 25 days, 14 days will give you a sealed brood break. Follow that with a single oxalic treatment for max effect. If you didn't want to treat then I'm not sure if it would push a significant amount of mites into an extended phoretic period, but at just 14 days disturbance it could be repeated pre and post swarm season.

But the day before you cage the queen she could have laid anywhere and those cells won't emerge for 21 days. ?

I'm going to have to watch that video again. It was an aside about Italian beeks caging for 25 days and then forgetting and leaving her for longer but it turned out OK.

Think he suggested that colony population increases because the nurse bees have less to do and therefore live longer. Timing with the flow is important.

There was a lot in there. The news that they can open sealed cells, multiple times was new to me.

 

[SDM]

But the day before you cage the queen she could have laid anywhere and those cells won't emerge for 21 days. ?
.

Yes, but from the day you release the queen there will not be new sealed brood for 9 days.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Might try this on one hive this year. Inspections every 9 days so you would loose 27-28 days of brood in July when the queen could have been laying 100s of eggs a day. But 95% of the varroa gone. I'm having to replace old combs anyway this year for the first time.

 

[gmonag]

Yes, but from the day you release the queen there will not be new sealed brood for 9 days.

...but you cannot perform the oxalic acid treatment until there is no sealed brood, i.e. after 25 days total (drone brood).

 

[SDM]

...but you cannot perform the oxalic acid treatment until there is no sealed brood, i.e. after 25 days total (drone brood).

Correct, didn't realise I'd written "no need to wait 25 days" should really have been "No need to cage for 25 days" it was the.length of the laying break that bothered
Parsonage bees.

 

[gmonag]

The critical point about Ralph Buchler's method is that the queen is caged 3 weeks before the harvest. Thus the loss of brood is not significant and the build-up for winter is unaffected (even improved, q.v.)

 

[madasafish]

Liked the examples of forced brood breaks. Prefer the idea of caging the queen to shook swarming but (and there was a question) once you release the queen most of the bees are ageing. You've lost 3+ weeks of brood. Don't you need young bees which can produce royal jelly? Do they pick up again?

I'm going to give this a go this year.

Based on my experience : not really...kills off the season.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Based on my experience : not really...kills off the season.

Again, I'm guessing. . .. In continental Europe they probably have drier, hotter summers so the nectar dries up. So you're not missing much as the colony rebuilds in August. In UK, cooler, wetter, there is still some honey to be made.

As I'm not driven by how much honey I can make I'd like to use less chemicals.

Thanks.

 

[gmonag]

Ralph Buchler explains that, far from slowing the recovery going into winter, the bees are stronger because they have a break from rearing brood and therefore live longer.

 

[B+.]

Ralph Buchler explains that, far from slowing the recovery going into winter, the bees are stronger because they have a break from rearing brood and therefore live longer.

Perhaps so...perhaps not.
For those of you who haven't seen this, here is Dr Samuel Ramsey talking about his Phd work on varroa feeding habits (https://youtu.be/z2plL5NIRcw ). I urge you all to watch this (despite his "whoDunnit" approach, it contains very useful information).

For those of you who may want to see the paper: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/5/1792.full.pdf

 

[Hunajavelho]

Ralph Buchler explains that, far from slowing the recovery going into winter, the bees are stronger because they have a break from rearing brood and therefore live longer.

Live longer - not from rearing brood but from not feeding young newly hatched bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Live longer - not from rearing brood but from not feeding young newly hatched bees.

Newly hatched bees are larvae...... brood in other words.

 

[Ian123]

Yes it’s the feeding larvae and production of brood food that does it not feeding young bees.

 

[B+.]

Yes it’s the feeding larvae and production of brood food that does it not feeding young bees.

You must be unfamiliar with Dr Ramseys work.
A brood break forces all the adult varroa to become "phoretic" (which we now know they are not - they are parasitic throughout their life). They feed on the fat bodies of the workers (nurse bees) who are then unable to produce the brood food in their hypopharyngeal glands and regenerate the colony. See https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=698790&postcount=34

Hunajavelho is right to say they live longer by not feeding larvae....by maintaining the fat bodies

 

[Ian123]

will check it out...

 

[Parsonage Bees]

And as the varroa continue to feed being unable to move into cells about to be capped the viruses multiply. Then you dose them with oxalic and the bees have to handle the effect of the acid and the viral load.

I'm liking the idea of trapping brood combs over complete removal of brood.