Man made v natural breeding and selection

[Sanntos]

Beautiful Skandinavian picture, Finman

 

[Boston Bees]

Beautiful Skandinavian picture, Finman

 

[Finman]

Fusion!

Did the Gene research told, from which race are your bees?
.

 

[Fusion_power]

Yes Finman, it showed my bees were primarily Italian with a generous dose of Mellifera genetics. The exception was one colony that was a descendant of a BWeaver queen that carried some African genes. The samples were taken in 2019 when I still had a few colonies of the BWeaver genetics. I eliminated all colonies that were descended from that line and now have only queens descended from my original bees. I was rather happy to find that the Africanized genetics are at a disadvantage in our climate. Even when heavily crossed into European bees, the Africanized bees don't winter very well. I suspect - but cannot prove - that the box gene mutation they found came from the mellifera genetics. The rationale is that it would have shown up in other samples of Italian derived bees from other beekeepers.

 

[Finman]

Yes Finman, it showed my bees were primarily Italian with a generous dose of Mellifera genetics.

Do you mean with mellifera that it is German black bee? (All bees are Apis melliferas, 40-50 races or what?)

 

[Fusion_power]

Yes, German Black which was very common here until varroa hit about 1990.

 

[Finman]

Yes, German Black which was very common here until varroa hit about 1990.

Ok, in Finland varroa made same thing to our German Blacks.

 

[Ian123]

https://www.uab.edu/news/people/ite...-workers-in-swarm-of-thousands-of-killer-bees

 

[Ian123]

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=49889.0
Lucky you to live an area of such tolerant bees
https://ssl.acesag.auburn.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0765/ANR-0765-archive.pdf
https://www.beesource.com/threads/african-bees-in-alabama.334893/

 

[Fusion_power]

Baldwin county is in extreme south Alabama near Mobile. I am 350 miles (about 560 km) north from there. I also happen to have kept bees in Baldwin county back in 1980. It is a nice warm climate with rare cold weather in winter. North Alabama is a bit colder. We have ice storms and the occasional blizzard (1993 blizzard for example, 2021 February ice storm). As I stated, Africanized bees are unadapted to cold weather. I know this is a hobby horse of yours, so perhaps I should state that I routinely work my bees in a t-shirt with minimal amounts of smoke. If they were Africanized, I would wear a veil at minimum and would have a full bee suit just for taking honey off in fall.

I worked highly Africanized bees in Mexico back in 2015. Just make a point not to drop frames or bang the hive around and keep a well lit smoker handy just in case. They are still workable and in the right climate make more honey than European bee races. I still wouldn't work them in a t-shirt. That one time you drop a frame would be disastrous.

 

[Ian123]

Baldwin county is in extreme south Alabama near Mobile. I am 350 miles (about 560 km) north from there. I also happen to have kept bees in Baldwin county back in 1980. It is a nice warm climate with rare cold weather in winter. North Alabama is a bit colder. We have ice storms and the occasional blizzard (1993 blizzard for example, 2021 February ice storm). As I stated, Africanized bees are unadapted to cold weather. I know this is a hobby horse of yours, so perhaps I should state that I routinely work my bees in a t-shirt with minimal amounts of smoke. If they were Africanized, I would wear a veil at minimum and would have a full bee suit just for taking honey off in fall.

I worked highly Africanized bees in Mexico back in 2015. Just make a point not to drop frames or bang the hive around and keep a well lit smoker handy just in case. They are still workable and in the right climate make more honey than European bee races. I still wouldn't work them in a t-shirt. That one time you drop a frame would be disastrous.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/whnt...ction-africanized-bees-in-madison-county/amp/
It’s the gift that just keeps giving

 

[Antipodes]

Do you mean with mellifera that it is German black bee? (All bees are Apis melliferas, 40-50 races or what?)

If all bees (or honey bees) are Apis melliferas as you say, wouldn't you just name/identify them by the subspecies as Fusion_Power did? For example scutellata, caucasia, liguista, carnica and so on?

 

[Finman]

If all bees (or honey bees) are Apis melliferas as you say, wouldn't you just name/identify them by the subspecies as Fusion_Power did? For example scutellata, caucasia, liguista, carnica and so on?

Look from Wikipedia. Fusion said nothing special.

Why I should name all Apis mellifera races?

It is funny, that Argentiina has Africanized bees too, but their genes are from North Africa.

 

[Antipodes]

Look from Wikipedia. Fusion said nothing special.

Why I should name all Apis mellifera races?

It is funny, that Argentiina has Africanized bees too, but their genes are from North Africa.

I had a look on the internet, and I found 33 subspecies, not 40 to 50, and I couldn't find any common name German Black Bee in this article.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1319562X20303363

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If all bees (or honey bees) are Apis melliferas as you say, wouldn't you just name/identify them by the subspecies as Fusion_Power did?

No, if they were Apis mellifera mellifera we would call them Amm, the others maybe, yes, just by their sub species. As far as I'm concerned, they are all mellifera

 

[Finman]

I had a look on the internet, and I found 33 subspecies, not 40 to 50, and I couldn't find any common name German Black Bee in this article.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1319562X20303363

Try to help your self. Surely in every country German Black has its local name. In Europe there are 200 original languages .

In Finland we say musta mehiläinen, black bee.

Sorry about my bee race calculations.... I got 29 bee races from Wikipedia.

 

[Fusion_power]

The number of geographic races will likely increase with time as there are a few more regions they inhabit where the bees have not been characterized. I often refer to black bees as mellifera just because it is their correct name. However, black bees should have been divided into several geographic races instead of all being lumped under one name. There were clear differences between English brown bees and french black bees, yet they are considered the same race. They probably derived from Iberian bees which derived from the black bees of northwest Africa. Older literature refers to them as "Tellian" bees. When I first started keeping bees, it was impossible to avoid black bee genetics. They were highly adapted to this region and swarmed repeatedly with estimates of over 100 colonies per square mile in some areas. Their traits included superb wintering, unbelievable spring buildup, extreme swarming, very dark honey produced, and aggressive behavior that included unprovoked stinging of anyone or anything within about 50 feet of their hive. They did not typically rob other colonies though they would clean out a dead colony. They were also very susceptible to most brood diseases and always had wax worms in odd corners of the hive. They were NOT hygienic. I can still remember how industrious the black bees were, especially as a newly hived swarm. I usually requeened with Ligustica queens so they would produce lighter colored honey.

 

[Antipodes]

Try to help your self. Surely in every country German Black has its local name. In Europe there are 200 original languages .

In Finland we say musta mehiläinen, black bee.

Sorry about my bee race calculations.... I got 29 bee races from Wikipedia.

I'm disappointed. I thought you had found heaps more.

 

[Antipodes]

The number of geographic races will likely increase with time as there are a few more regions they inhabit where the bees have not been characterized. I often refer to black bees as mellifera just because it is their correct name. However, black bees should have been divided into several geographic races instead of all being lumped under one name. There were clear differences between English brown bees and french black bees, yet they are considered the same race. They probably derived from Iberian bees which derived from the black bees of northwest Africa. Older literature refers to them as "Tellian" bees. When I first started keeping bees, it was impossible to avoid black bee genetics. They were highly adapted to this region and swarmed repeatedly with estimates of over 100 colonies per square mile in some areas. Their traits included superb wintering, unbelievable spring buildup, extreme swarming, very dark honey produced, and aggressive behavior that included unprovoked stinging of anyone or anything within about 50 feet of their hive. They did not typically rob other colonies though they would clean out a dead colony. They were also very susceptible to most brood diseases and always had wax worms in odd corners of the hive. They were NOT hygienic. I can still remember how industrious the black bees were, especially as a newly hived swarm. I usually requeened with Ligustica queens so they would produce lighter colored honey.

I didn't know about the different coloured honey, but recall something about colour of wax produced between different sub-species.

 

[Fusion_power]

To my knowledge, all wax as produced by honey bees is white. It turns yellow from carotenoids in pollen. Some races of bees mix wax with propolis to cap honey resulting in gray tinted cappings. Some bees tear off parts of brood combs to make cappings for honey resulting in brown tinted cappings. My experience with A.m.m. bees was that they always produced very white cappings by chewing the wax flakes to incorporate a bit of air. Unfortunately they made very dark honey from the type flowers they preferred giving nice cappings on low grade honey. Ligustica by comparison makes crude cappings but usually covering very light colored honey. An exception is Yellow Poplar which makes a dark reddish colored honey that is a good table grade honey but does not bring the prices better types such as sourwood or chinese privet bring. Italian bees IME go gangbusters after yellow poplar.