Latest snake-oil varroa treatment pretending not to be a varroa treatment

[bobba]

I think there is a good chance that the creator of the "Hive Cleaning" product may have good intentions. Perhaps they have produced and used them with great success and hope to make a few £s selling their creation. Obviously there are certain regulatory factors to consider if one were to sell a veroha treatment, so they are sold as a hive cleaning product.

So obviously they are not going to answer questions on their effectiveness as a mite treatment.

If it were not for the availability of cheap oxcilid acid, I suspect the big company's would be extracting far more money from bee keepers for treatments. So if random people are producing competing products its got to help keep prices down.

So I think some of you have been unnecessarily harsh to someone who is clearly just trying to make a few £s in hard times. His product contained legitimate ingredients and others have had success with similar products. So if you have tried it and its sh!te, then share your experience, but I dont think its fair to call it snake oil.

I have only ever vaped, but think strips show promises so am glad there are people out there experimenting with them.

 

[BugsInABox]

I think there is a good chance that the creator of the "Hive Cleaning" product may have good intentions. Perhaps they have produced and used them with great success and hope to make a few £s selling their creation. Obviously there are certain regulatory factors to consider if one were to sell a veroha treatment, so they are sold as a hive cleaning product.

So obviously they are not going to answer questions on their effectiveness as a mite treatment.

If it were not for the availability of cheap oxcilid acid, I suspect the big company's would be extracting far more money from bee keepers for treatments. So if random people are producing competing products its got to help keep prices down.

So I think some of you have been unnecessarily harsh to someone who is clearly just trying to make a few £s in hard times. His product contained legitimate ingredients and others have had success with similar products. So if you have tried it and its sh!te, then share your experience, but I dont think its fair to call it snake oil.

I have only ever vaped, but think strips show promises so am glad there are people out there experimenting with them.

The writing on them makes me think they are actually manufactured in eastern europe somewhere. Abelo I'm guessing just import and re-sell.

 

[BugsInABox]

At least with the shop towels the bees remove the material so do have intimate contact with the material. I have tried the Abelo strips a few times. Mostly they were left alone. One colony threw them out in large pieces.
I seem to recall that with Randy the towels worked in some areas but not in others

Yes, from memory he speculated it was passge over the towels that was the crucial step vs the removal of the matrix thorugh the coloney that was a key mode of action.
His later work was on cellulose sponges (which I think are more similar to the Abelo product).
I think I might make my own though if I continue with this - it's true it's hard to be assured of what the Ableo product actually is.

 

[BugsInABox]

Let us know what you find?

So just to update.
Alcohol wash - 380 bees, zero varroa in washings. Obviously I'm on a long hive and this is just one result so liitle may be extrapolated. I'll do, and update re, my other colonies in the comming weeks.

 

[pargyle]

So just to update.
Alcohol wash - 380 bees, zero varroa in washings. Obviously I'm on a long hive and this is just one result so liitle may be extrapolated. I'll do, and update re, my other colonies in the comming weeks.

Well... a sugar roll would have given you the same result without killing 380 bees ! At this time of the year the last thing they need is to lose ANY of their workers. If you can't rely on the result or extrapolate what you found was there any point in testing them ?

 

[BugsInABox]

Well... a sugar roll would have given you the same result without killing 380 bees ! At this time of the year the last thing they need is to lose ANY of their workers. If you can't rely on the result or extrapolate what you found was there any point in testing them ?

I expected that feedback. I might try that next time. I know there are 380 bees in my cup. The results are relevant to this hive and my own decisions regarding future varroa control.
Are wash and roll result numbers interchangeable?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are wash and roll result numbers interchangeable

yes

 

[BugsInABox]

Randy's latest research is in.

https://scientificbeekeeping.com/7701-2/
He continues to be quite bulish.

My results this year were zero spring mite counts (1 alcohol wash and 2 sugar washes) accross 3 top bar colonies that had OA strips from Nov to March.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for the update.
I usually vape.
I have used Abelo Oxalic strips but wasn’t convinced of their efficacy.
I did mention previously that they might work better if we kept them in the broods from spring through to late autumn but several people brought up the subject of resistance.
I might trial a couple of colonies myself and just keep the honey for me.

 

[BugsInABox]

Thanks for the update.
I usually vape.
I have used Abelo Oxalic strips but wasn’t convinced of their efficacy.
I did mention previously that they might work better if we kept them in the broods from spring through to late autumn but several people brought up the subject of resistance.
I might trial a couple of colonies myself and just keep the honey for me.

Again this is Randy’s idea, but he is of the view that the mechanism of action of OA (however applied) is macro enough that it’s less likely to be susceptible to resistance.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Again this is Randy’s idea, but he is of the view that the mechanism of action of OA (however applied) is macro enough that it’s less likely to be susceptible to resistance.

It’s so tempting to try isn’t it? Just replace the strips every six weeks.

 

[Ian123]

Thanks for the update.
I usually vape.
I have used Abelo Oxalic strips but wasn’t convinced of their efficacy.
I did mention previously that they might work better if we kept them in the broods from spring through to late autumn but several people brought up the subject of resistance.
I might trial a couple of colonies myself and just keep the honey for me.

Thanks for the update.
I usually vape.
I have used Abelo Oxalic strips but wasn’t convinced of their efficacy.
I did mention previously that they might work better if we kept them in the broods from spring through to late autumn but several people brought up the subject of resistance.
I might trial a couple of colonies myself and just keep the honey for me.

They shouldn’t develop resistance to physical effects.

 

[Mint Bee]

shouldn't but sh*t happens. Selective pressure can result in all sorts of weird things, given enough opportunity. Only takes one mutation to confer some form of advantage to a small population of varroa and then they can easily become the predominant sub species. Why risk it?

 

[Michael Palmer]

There are a number of credible beekeepers I know who are using OA/GLY pads. All are claiming good long term control.

 

[Ian123]

shouldn't but sh*t happens. Selective pressure can result in all sorts of weird things, given enough opportunity. Only takes one mutation to confer some form of advantage to a small population of varroa and then they can easily become the predominant sub species. Why risk it?

Working on the basis of why risk it we could stop using it altogether, just in case. The exact effects of oxalic on varroa are not fully understood. Most I’ve seen suggest a physical damage, resistance would be the equivalent of the human body developing resistance to a bullet! To top it off those of us who’ve used it for 20years or so have not seen resistance unlike chemical strip treatments.

 

[mbc]

Again this is Randy’s idea, but he is of the view that the mechanism of action of OA (however applied) is macro enough that it’s less likely to be susceptible to resistance.

I do wish Randy would overcome his resistance to trying cardboard strips hung vertically between brood frames, in my minds eye it just forces more contact between the sticky oxalic and the bees than, especially with single brood where there's no opportunity to place, pads between boxes.
Anyway, I imagine oxalic/glycerine administered into hives on some sort of extended release matrix appears to be a front runner for varroa treatment while we wait for super magic bullet varroa impervious bees to be bred(so long as the vmd and avaricious corporations can be kept out of the frame).
What's not to like, a cheap organic effective treatment with little or no residue risks, better than anything on offer currently.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I do wish Randy would overcome his resistance to trying cardboard strips hung vertically between brood frames

Ceri,
What's the effect on brood underneath? Will the queen get to lay between the strips and the frame?

 

[BugsInABox]

shouldn't but sh*t happens. Selective pressure can result in all sorts of weird things, given enough opportunity. Only takes one mutation to confer some form of advantage to a small population of varroa and then they can easily become the predominant sub species. Why risk it?

No, I think the suggestion is that the mechanism of action is such that mutations like you describe shouldn’t result in resistance. The analogy in head lice is that the lice develop resistance to various miticides but not to the nit comb.

 

[mbc]

Ceri,
What's the effect on brood underneath? Will the queen get to lay between the strips and the frame?

I'm told () that with cardboard of the right consistency (cereal packets where they use cheap cardboard with a slightly grainy fibrous quality to the touch, my kids are sick of aldi home brand shreddies!) then the bees will chew away the strip as the nest gets closer and they're working on that bit of comb more intensely, you're left with just a little piece of strip on the wood of the top bar.
If a strip was hung directly between active brood frames then it would get munched almost immediately and lose its extended release advantage, but placed so as the advancing nest approaches the strips it gets removed in a fairly timely fashion. The brood looks perfectly healthy and normal right up against any remaining strips.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's very helpful, as an academic perspective