LASI hygienic queens....open for business

[B+.]

Or you can do it this way


http://www.coloss.org/beebook/I/queen-rearing/3/3/4/1

The same argument that Gilberdyke John made still holds though. You could argue that the damaged area where the section of brood comb was cut out is also a signal to the bees that something is wrong with the brood.
Personally, I use the pin-killed brood method and have no problems. The important thing to note is that the brood should be of the right age. Too young and you can miss the larva when you pierce the capping, and, too old and there is too much resistence to the insect pin. The pupa should be at the pink eyed stage. You may, therefore need to mark a specific comb for use in the test or manually uncap some cells to find pupae of the correct age

 

[Somerford]

Well I've orderd a couple of the unmated queens. It will be interesting to see the characteristics, calmness, honey producing capabilities etc.
I'll get them mated in a couple of apideas then see what transpires when they go into a queenless colony.

All rather exciting

I presume they will be despatched on 20/5 for delivery on 21st hopefully ?

KR
S

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Well I've orderd a couple of the unmated queens. It will be interesting to see the characteristics, calmness, honey producing capabilities etc.
I'll get them mated in a couple of apideas then see what transpires when they go into a queenless colony.

All rather exciting

I presume they will be despatched on 20/5 for delivery on 21st hopefully ?

KR
S

Well done - I do appreciate somebody who backs their judgement with hard cash!

This has turned out to be a real learning thread for many people, including me.

CVB

 

[REDWOOD]

The more I think about this the more doubtful im becoming. Do I have hygenic bees if they remove mouldy pollen in supers?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm leaning more towards Steve Martin's theory that this hygienic thing is just coincidence, we're missing the trees for the woods and it's more down to DWV B. Apparently there's no evidence of hygienic behaviour having a part to play in Apis Ceranae's ability to coexist with varroa.

 

[Itchy]

I might invest in a couple - can't hurt with my mongrel crowd

 

[BeeJayBee]

I'm leaning more towards Steve Martin's theory that this hygienic thing is just coincidence, we're missing the trees for the woods and it's more down to DWV B.

Heavens! I've agreed with JBM twice this evening!

I'm yet to be convinced that bees cleaning out dead (frozen or pin-pricked) larvae is the same as bees cleaning out larvae that are damaged by DWV but still alive.

Given the choice I think I'd buy one of Ron Hoskins' queens, but I think at the moment it would be a waste because too many local beekeepers are still bringing in foreign queens.

 

[dickbowyer]

Who is going to take the plunge and perhaps ruin a good stock of bees in their apiary. Varroa treatments works at the moment and judging by the amount of varroa drop people are reporting, it is down to a low, as far as I am concerned I will keep vaping

The long term answer is in genetics, not artificial control of Varroa. The question is whether these bees will be part of the genetic solution.

I have a £45 punt.

 

[REDWOOD]

This thread is starting to look like the flow hive thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pargyle]

This thread is starting to look like the flow hive thread


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No ... it's been quite interesting - for once I've been sitting in the the wings. There's no arguments .. just opinions which is great. I don't know whether it's worth investing in LASI queens although I welcome anything that adds to the untreated and surviving gene pool of bees. I'm not going to disturb my bees by 'testing' them with any sort of tests for hygienic behaviour .. if they have it and it's working that's fine by me ... if they have the DWV B virus, once again - great - I don't see any disease in my hives and they are living alongside varroa and surviving and thriving .. so long may it continue.

I do think the LASI queens are an encouragement to all of those who hope that treatment free can become a risk free general reality - we may not be there yet but it's one more step down a long road.

 

[fatshark]

Why are they not free ?

The department is funded by EU/UK grants.

Are you sure?

The current list of funders has no government money. Quote from that page :

LASI is funded entirely by the University of Sussex and by donations from private individuals, companies and trusts and foundations.

It's a bit out of date though but I'm not aware of them winning a big BBSRC or equivalent grant in the last 2-3 years.

I'm astounded they can produce them so cheaply using Uni facilities and staff ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This thread is starting to look like the flow hive thread

 

[B+.]

it's one more step down a long road.

Its a VERY long and winding road with lots of side streets and cul-de-sacs.

I hope that Prof Ratneik answers some of the questions posed here because I don't see how the claims can be supported. Basic genetics argues that the claim for open mated queens is wrong.
I mean...COME ON...a diploid worker/queen gets half of its chromosomes from the drone that contributed the semen (and indirectly from the queen who laid the drone egg). If you are open mating queens, you can very quickly lose any genetic traits that you have. This is why most people can't open mate Buckfasts. Its common sense!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Its a VERY long and winding road with lots of side streets and cul-de-sacs.

I hope that Prof Ratneik answers some of the questions posed here because I don't see how the claims can be supported. Basic genetics argues that the claim for open mated queens is wrong.
I mean...COME ON...a diploid worker/queen gets half of its chromosomes from the drone that contributed the semen (and indirectly from the queen who laid the drone egg). If you are open mating queens, you can very quickly lose any genetic traits that you have. This is why most people can't open mate Buckfasts. Its common sense!

His argument was that open mated queens are hygienic but not as hygienic as those mated with hygienic drones because even some hygienic attributes have a significant impact on varroa.....
You would have to have SOME hygienic drones in the mix so I guess it works in his apiaries where they all are.
Sorry a few too many hygienics in those sentences
The talk was really about how they open hives in winter to scrape out brood (which we've heard about already) and sublimate with Oxalic and if you add a hygienic queen to that recipe you can really keep varroa levels to tolerable levels for up to a year and a half.
He was quite dismissive about serial sublimation in the presence of brood.
JBM took some notes so I'm sure he'll be along soon with his take on the matter

PS. It was good to catch up with some friends and put faces to others

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

To be honest he wasn't interested in much apart from plugging his mythical bees and insisting we do it his way and no other. He wasn't even prepared to discuss that covering a brood cycle could be as effective as one dose when broodless and thinks we should carry on inspecting through the winter until we get a broodless period.
At least his hard data on OA was useful although I did blush a bit when he said "but who on earth would buy a half hundredweight of Oxalic?"
2.25 is the magic number regardless of size of hive/colony this has been found to be the ideal weight of OA to use in tests there wasn't much difference between 1.4 grams and up to 4 grams so even if you don't weigh enough out or there's a tiny bit left it don't matter.
OA sublimation compared to other methods showed a significantly greater colony strength going into spring.
Drone brood trapping is a pretty ineffective excercise.
Sublimating a broodless colony twice in two weeks can give a 99.5% kill rate.
A hyigenic queen will cure a colony of DWV
A useful snippet was that mid December is the likeliest time for a colony to be broodless unless a very mild autumn.

 

[mbc]

A useful snippet was that mid December is the likeliest time for a colony to be broodless unless a very mild autumn.

Diolch am y crynodeb
Late November and early December have been the most likely times to find colonies totally brood less in my part of the world.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Late November and early December have been the most likely times to find colonies totally brood less in my part of the world.

And late August to early September here.

 

[mbc]

And late August to early September here.

Lol. If last year was anything to go by, some colonies were broodless in the second half of July. Let's hope that's not a trend

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Erica & JMB

Thanks for the reports of Prof Ratnieks' presentation.

Do you recall whether anything was said about Type a, Type b or Type c DWV viruses or Ron Hoskins' version of hygienic bees, in Swindon?

CVB

 

[Plenty of honey]

To be honest he wasn't interested in much apart from plugging his mythical bees and insisting we do it his way and no other. He wasn't even prepared to discuss that covering a brood cycle could be as effective as one dose when broodless and thinks we should carry on inspecting through the winter until we get a broodless period.
At least his hard data on OA was useful although I did blush a bit when he said "but who on earth would buy a half hundredweight of Oxalic?"
2.25 is the magic number regardless of size of hive/colony this has been found to be the ideal weight of OA to use in tests there wasn't much difference between 1.4 grams and up to 4 grams so even if you don't weigh enough out or there's a tiny bit left it don't matter.
OA sublimation compared to other methods showed a significantly greater colony strength going into spring.
Drone brood trapping is a pretty ineffective excercise.
Sublimating a broodless colony twice in two weeks can give a 99.5% kill rate.
A hyigenic queen will cure a colony of DWV
A useful snippet was that mid December is the likeliest time for a colony to be broodless unless a very mild autumn.

All extremely interesting JBM and well explained. Thank you