Kirklees Council Allotments and the Honey Bee!

[Brian Bush]

Well done everyone. we need to educate some of these featherbedded, final salary scheme pen pushers.

Bees are not livestock in UK law.
The reason for byelaws forbidding livestock on allotments is to prevent vermin, ie rats for aging for chicken food. No problem here with bees!!!!
3 rd party insurance from BBKA

I had a hive on my allotment last year but it went queenless and I lost it.

6 weeks ago i was making my way up the allotment when I was waylaid by a couple of old codgers, incidentally one of whom objected to a hive last year. They were demanding to know, on behalf of the masses, why I did not have a hive on the allotment. Shocked!!!

They said that they had noticed a vast improvement of pollination of Peas Beans and soft fruit last year and wanted the bees back.

I have hived 2 swarms up there since. At least a dozen holders have come over to view the ladies, thank me etc etc.
Put me in touch with Kirklees - I could give these petty minded,pettyfogging b******s a little bit of my mind!!!!!

 

[Mission]

Please feel free to write.

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[Brosville]

just sent the following -

"Dear Ms Smith,
I am horrified by the news in the Guardian that some "jobsworth" in your council has decided in their idiocy to evict an allotment holder for keeping bees on their allotment....... This is patently stupid, and done from a position of lamentable ignorance on the subject.
Allotment holders are on the whole rightfully welcoming of bees - they provide far better natural pollination of their crops, and especially in view of the well-publicised problems with bees of late should be welcomed with open arms by progressive and intelligently-run councils.
All I can presume is that someone has completely overestimated the chance of them being sued for "injury" by them - I gather the bee owner carries membership of a national orgnisation that indemnifies him for up to £5 million for public liability.
I trust that the glare of publicity will force a review of this idiocy post haste

yours most sincerely, a fellow beekeeper,



sent to [email protected]

 

[victor meldrew]

Whilst not siding with any jobs worthies, I must point out that the third party insurance element of the bbka insurance scheme, makes it clear that the beekeeper must take due precautions to prevent a preventable situation from arising by the careful placement of bee hives and excercising care when manipulating same !.

John Wilkinson

 

[Nellie]

John Fletcher, from the department, said: "Hives are not permitted on allotments due to the dangers they can present to other allotment holders, such as swarming.

"However, wild bees do not pose this threat and should be encouraged on to allotments because of their pollination activity. For this reason we advise people against the indiscriminate use of pesticides."

Huh? Other than the whole about as safe as you can get while they're swarming element, why would a properly kept "domestic" hive bee be more dangerous than a feral colony left to its own devices that they, apparently, want to encourage?

And I know it's nit-picking but surely a feral colony (if it survives) is going to be far more prone to swarming than a kept hive.

 

[Geoff]

Why would a feral colony still be feral?......possibly because they are so vicious that no beekeeper will take them.
As you say domestic bees are no more likely to swarm and when they do swarm they do not pose a risk.
Most beekeepers would only put bees anywhere like that they knew were fairly gentle and would make sure the bees are unlikely to collide with fellow plotholders.
Why do people make persumptions about bees instead of asking people who know about these things first?

 

[beesontoast]

beekeeping on allotments

In order to gain some value from my £25 membership, I am now writing to the BBKA to ask them to get involved with the Education of Kirklees Council. I am also asking Kirklees Council to confirm their policies on Honey bees as their Environment Office is in favour of the promotion of the Honey bee, but the department in charge of the Allotments is against them. I think I have stirred up the proverbial “Hornets Nest” but if it makes Kirklees Council sit up and take notice well then it’s worth the trouble. I shall still be removing the hives from the allotment, however they will be returning as soon as this battle is won and Kirklees Council accepts the fact that in line with other local councils, Honey bees should be encouraged on an allotment.

I hope the BBKA help - it's time they supported beekeepers instead of corporations.

Good luck, and Kirklees Council will be getting a letter from Friends of the Bees in support of your cause.

 

[beesontoast]

To: [email protected]

Dear Ms Smith,

I write in support of Jason Clegg, who, I understand, has been threatened with eviction from his allotment if he refuses to remove his beehives, which were placed there with the agreement of other allotment holders and the secretary of the local association.

As you will be aware, bees need all the help they can get at the moment, and I think we should applaud the initiative of anyone who elects to keep bees with the agreement of their neighbours in any suitable location, and find reasons to help and encourage such activity, rather than reasons to prevent it.

Your colleague John Fletcher is quoted in the press as saying, "Hives are not permitted on allotments due to the dangers they can present to other allotment holders, such as swarming. However, wild bees do not pose this threat and should be encouraged on to allotments because of their pollination activity. For this reason we advise people against the indiscriminate use of pesticides."

Mr Fletcher is quite wrong to suggest that swarming is a danger to the public. When bees swarm, they are actually in a state where they are least likely to sting anyone - their sole concern at that time is to find a new place to live. I have collected many swarms in nearly a decade of beekeeping and have on many occasions put my bare hand into the centre of a swarm without being stung. I fear this attitude towards bees is based on ignorance. I am told that Mr Clegg has, in any case, £5M worth of public liability insurance.

Mr Fletcher also allegedly said, "It was as right for the bees to be classed as livestock. If you look at the dictionary definition of ‘livestock', it is any animal and if you look at the definition of ‘insect' you'll find that an insect is an animal".

Dictionary definitions notwithstanding, you and I are governed by law-makers, not lexicographers.
Under the Animals Act 1971: 'livestock' means cattle, horses, *****, mules, hinnies, sheep, pigs, goats and poultry, and also deer not in the wild state and, in sections 3 and 9, also, while in captivity, pheasants, partridges and grouse.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/lofjda

I therefore urge you to reconsider your position in this matter and find reasons to encourage responsible beekeeping on suitable sites.

Please forward this email to anyone you consider to have an interest in this matter.

Yours,

Philip Chandler
Director, Friends of the Bees Ltd.

http://www.biobees.com

 

[Mission]

Philip

Many thanks for taking the time to support my fight.

A local councillor contacted me last night and also agreed that the legal definition is correct and as such he knows Kirklees are wrong. He is joining me tomorrow for a hive inspection and to see my plot for himself. I have offered an olive branch and offered to work with the council on an effective and responsible honey bee strategy. He agrees that Kirklees don't want to fight a legal battle and that a working partnership is a better way forwards. Hopefully tomorrow will see the start of positive change within Kirklees.

Again my thanks to you all for your support.

 

[BKF Admin]

Well done Phil

 

[East Yorks New Bee]

I second that Admin and also take my hat of to Jay for standing his ground and not crumpling like most folks do when confronded by beauracrats spouting the law according to themselves. Stand firm and stand strong, especially when you know your right.

 

[beesontoast]

Philip

Many thanks for taking the time to support my fight.

I have offered an olive branch and offered to work with the council on an effective and responsible honey bee strategy.

You're welcome. I think that is the best approach - give them an opportunity to save face and be seen to be doing something positive.

Good luck!

PS - feel free to pass my email on to the local rags if you think it will help.

 

[jezd]

Why would a feral colony still be feral?

Wot? Bees came along long before we did, feral bees are not there simply becuase humans allow them to be - a feral colony is a natural colony.

Jez

 

[Geoff]

Why would a feral colony still be feral?QUOTE]

Wot? Bees came along long before we did, feral bees are not there simply becuase humans allow them to be - a feral colony is a natural colony.

Jez

How many genuinely feral colonies do you seriously think there are and how long are they going to survive, with the introduced varroa? If people find out about wild colonies they usually try to hive them unless they are vicious as I said. Feral colonies are there because they escaped, that is what feral means.
There is considerable doubt as to whether we had any native bees ie. that bees came to these isles of their own accord. it seems a reasonable proposition that like other creatures we take foir granted that they were brought here by our ancestors. Man has taken the honey bee to many parts of the world where they would have not reached on their own and it is perfectly reasonable that they were brought here by the hand of man.

 

[Nellie]

As a fellow allotment beekeeper I would also be prepared to write in support on your behalf. I don't carry any weight on my allotment or within the local association, but I do regularly converse with my plot neighbours about my bees, their crops and so on and have had nothing but curiosity, interest and support regarding my bees.

 

[beesontoast]

There is considerable doubt as to whether we had any native bees ie. that bees came to these isles of their own accord. it seems a reasonable proposition that like other creatures we take foir granted that they were brought here by our ancestors. Man has taken the honey bee to many parts of the world where they would have not reached on their own and it is perfectly reasonable that they were brought here by the hand of man.

If our native bees (Apis mellifera mellifera) were introduced by man, which I doubt, it was certainly a long time ago.

According to Fraser in his History of Beekeeping in England, “the Anglo Saxons had invaded a land in which beekeeping in wicker hives had been practiced from time immemorial, having continued unchanged through the Roman occupation. Up to the present no evidence has been produced that the Anglo-Saxons themselves changed it in any way, except for the introduction of the straw skep in East Anglia.”

How far back do you go before you consider something 'native'?

 

[Geoff]

If our native bees (Apis mellifera mellifera) were introduced by man, which I doubt, it was certainly a long time ago.

According to Fraser in his History of Beekeeping in England, “the Anglo Saxons had invaded a land in which beekeeping in wicker hives had been practiced from time immemorial, having continued unchanged through the Roman occupation. Up to the present no evidence has been produced that the Anglo-Saxons themselves changed it in any way, except for the introduction of the straw skep in East Anglia.”

How far back do you go before you consider something 'native'?

Native means got here by its own means. I think there is evidence that in prehistoric times people were collecting honey from wild bees. But people probably brought wild bees with them deliberately as they occupied these islands. Native has nothing to do with time. They were brought here like rabbits were. The term feral means escaped from domesticity so feral colonies would not be entirely natural. Some think that honey bees originated in a climate warmer than our own.

 

[jezd]

How many genuinely feral colonies do you seriously think there are and how long are they going to survive, with the introduced varroa? If people find out about wild colonies they usually try to hive them unless they are vicious as I said. Feral colonies are there because they escaped, that is what feral means.
There is considerable doubt as to whether we had any native bees ie. that bees came to these isles of their own accord. it seems a reasonable proposition that like other creatures we take foir granted that they were brought here by our ancestors. Man has taken the honey bee to many parts of the world where they would have not reached on their own and it is perfectly reasonable that they were brought here by the hand of man.

Far more wild honey bees than you realise, it always amazes me the arrogance that a sector of beekeeping has towards feral/wild colonies even to the point of blaming them for disease and viruses (not saying you are or arnt).....I personally like the idea of the wild colonies finding their own solution to varroa - but then again if the attitudes of my local BKA are common then its going to be hard work.

Added : the world could do with a few less feral humans lol, are we classed as feral?

 

[beesontoast]

I personally like the idea of the wild colonies finding their own solution to varroa - but then again if the attitudes of my local BKA are common then its going to be hard work.

Quite agree. We need more ferals, not less - survivor ferals comprise the genetic pool from which the future 'varroa-tolerant' bees will come. While beekeepers continue in their attempts to poison varroa mites with chemical treatments, they will just go on selecting for resistant mites - as they have done for the last 17 years since varroa arrived in the UK.

And Geoff, I see no reason why honeybees would not have migrated here from Europe across the land bridge that joined us to France only 10,000 years ago. Even if they were brought here - and I have seen no evidence to suggest they were - does that make them somehow less worthy of conservation? Are you going to tell the Americans to kill off all their bees because there were none there before 1638?

 

[Mission]

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/loca...atens-to-sue-if-hives-removed-86081-23984696/

Well this is the latest installment of the story. Tomorrow I have a camera man coming from Amature Gardner magazine, so the message is spreading.

On a very positive note, I have now been invited to attend a meeting with council next Thursday. Hopefully this is the start of positive change.