Keepers etiquette

[Hachi]

I've just been offered an out apiary and found out a local bee farmer has hives somewhere close who I'm told, wont be happy. I've no idea where just that he's local.


Unaccustomed as I am to heeding a gypsies curse, is there any beekeeping folklore I'm unaware of?


For the avoidance of doubt... I don't intend popping round with a jar of honey as a friendly gesture or peace offering.

 

[domino]

Not sure why you are worried if you've been offered a nice site snap it up.

 

[Beefriendly]

Try a few hives there and see if the forage is good.
Nobody likes "new beeks" intruding into "their patch"...but unless physical violence is threatened go ahead and judge by yields. Many commercial beekeepers will run 50 hives on a site, so doubt you will have much impact on their yields.

 

[SDM]

Personally id speak to my sbi , he wont be able to give you the other beekeepers details but you can ask to have yours given to him. Fimd out a bit more, how nearby, how many hives.on the site.
Ive had hives that turned out to be surrounded by large apiaries and wasted 3 years in a spot that got me not a frame of honey . Your sbi may be able to tell you how dense hives are locally. Nobody owns an area but you may as well have them somewhere theyll thrive plus this way you get to meet a local beek.

 

[Hachi]

Not sure why you are worried if you've been offered a nice site snap it up.

Not worried just wondering why he'd get all bent out of shape over it. If its folklore that's one thing if he's being a k**b …… its a free country.

Try a few hives there and see if the forage is good.
Nobody likes "new beeks" intruding into "their patch"...but unless physical violence is threatened go ahead and judge by yields. Many commercial beekeepers will run 50 hives on a site, so doubt you will have much impact on their yields.

Already agreed to put at least 4 hives there BF so we'll see how it goes.

Personally id speak to my sbi , he wont be able to give you the other beekeepers details but you can ask to have yours given to him. Fimd out a bit more, how nearby, how many hives.on the site.
Ive had hives that turned out to be surrounded by large apiaries and wasted 3 years in a spot that got me not a frame of honey . Your sbi may be able to tell you how dense hives are locally. Nobody owns an area but you may as well have them somewhere theyll thrive plus this way you get to meet a local beek.

I know who he is so no need for the SBI. the area looks good for a good harvest and so I'll give it a punt. Reckon he wouldn't be there if it wasn't.

Thanks all

 

[denise washington]

if hes a decent bloke you should have no probs get on with it where i am theres 3 of us in a small area and since i moved down there ive not done much looked for another place but cant find owt so i think this is going to be my last year so good luck hope it works out for you

 

[peteinwilts]

I've just been offered an out apiary and found out a local bee farmer has hives somewhere close who I'm told, wont be happy. I've no idea where just that he's local.


Unaccustomed as I am to heeding a gypsies curse, is there any beekeeping folklore I'm unaware of?


For the avoidance of doubt... I don't intend popping round with a jar of honey as a friendly gesture or peace offering.

If it is me, I don't mind. I also try and be consderate to other beekeepers by keeping relatively small number in one place. I think I know who you are talking about though.

Some beefarmers and beekeepers are extremely territorial

 

[alfazer]

He would be concerned about you as an unknown because he think you might carry a disease, or use a different race of bee, or even feed your bees (and his) in the open.

Or he could just bee a beekeeper who likes to think he's a bit special if he's the only one around.

 

[For want of a better word]

He would be concerned about you as an unknown because he think you might carry a disease, or use a different race of bee, or even feed your bees (and his) in the open.

Or he could just bee a beekeeper who likes to think he's a bit special if he's the only one around.

A good point there!

Yes try to befriend the local beekeepers... if you or they have a problem with the bees it would be resolved much more quickly.

I would just like to know who is keeping bees in the same vicinity as I keep mine.

Had an incidence this season where a "grow local" bod rocked up with a colony of bees of unknown origins and placed them not 100 yds from one of my mating apiaries with 20 colonies.
I am relatively well known as a beekeeper in the area as I try to supply folk around me with bees from my own local stock, and so far one and all have taken up my offer.
This difficult season this has payed back dividends as we have tackled all sorts of problems, by helping each other nobody is going into winter with a queenless colony.

However now knowing the supply chain, who sold him the bees to him and how this novice beekeeper was encouraged to bring ( the wrong type) bees onto his property ... leaves me a little saddened.

I attempted to help him and even offered mentoring but to no avail... as far as I can see he has lost his bees and probably has given up.... which is a shame as we need new young and properly trained beekeepers.

No wish for the forum trolls to hijack this thread... but beekeepers MUST work together.... and although your SBI probably knows the locations of most of the apiary sites and the beekeepers near to you, if they have not registered on Beebase they can not really help.

Yeghes da

 

[domino]

Not worried just wondering why he'd get all bent out of shape over it. If its folklore that's one thing if he's being a k**b …… its a free country.

It is indeed a free country and any beekeeper moaning you've put bees on someone else land is likely the sort of person you don't want to spend time with anyway. Good luck with your new site, have fun.

 

[SDM]

Given recent studies published in main stream media, youd think people woukd start giving some consideration to competion with other pollinators .

 

[thorn]

It is indeed a free country and any beekeeper moaning you've put bees on someone else land is likely the sort of person you don't want to spend time with anyway. Good luck with your new site, have fun.

Indeed it's a free country, but one in which courtesy and consideration toward others is in decline. Contact your neighbouring beekeeper. Reassure him about the way you keep your bees and let him reassure you about his practices. Ask him about the forage. If it's limited you'll both suffer. If you cooperate you can both benefit.

 

[Into the lions den]

Speaking as a beefarmer, we realise the little guys need a place to keep their bees. We have no issues at all about amateurs having a few hives on the same patch...just not right next door.

When we start to work with a landowner or farmer we like to ensure exclusivity, on the commercial level that is, so make it clear that the small guys with up to around 10 hives are no issue for us and we have no objections to them being around unless there ends up being a lot of them. We take their presence into account when deciding how many go there, otherwise we end up cutting our own throats on forage.

What we don't like are folk who masquerade as a small guy looking for a place because they are desperate...the landowner sympathises...and the next thing there are 40 hives almost across the fence. Often followed by an allegation that their bees died because the 'beefarmer' nearby had 'diseased bees' that made their own die........... trust me...it happens.

Its usually the small that fear the big and invent all sorts of reasons why they should have the place to themselves. As another poster mentioned, it IS the landowners choice who they have on their land, and it can be unreasonable behaviour by a small beekeeper that costs them their place, not the actions of the big boys, who generally not fazed by things.

The classic two in recent years, both encountered more than once.

1. The farmer has 500 acres of OSR coming into flower. He wants to ensure adequate supplementary pollination. He asks local beefarmer to place hives. Joe Bloggs with 6 hives objects and gets very stroppy with farmer. Joe Bloggs told to sling his hook. Beefarmer held to blame...and every malaise that then befalls Bloggs's hives is the BF's fault...even if they were never on the same patch at the same time.
2. You cannot allow these bees here. 'It is well known that the local bees around here are a special type not found anywhere else in the world (select from a long list of characterisitics highlighted) and incoming bees will destroy the gene pool that is a unique resource we might need when (not if!) all the other (inferior?) bees die off. (Truth...in at least two cases other beefarmers had been moving into the area every spring for many years, and several local beekeepers bought in stock too....and we are virtually local to them anyway.) Have had two cases of farmers being threatened with violence by other beekeepers. One told the small guy where to go, the other moved us on as he feared the outcome.

 

[For want of a better word]

Speaking as a beefarmer, we realise the little guys need a place to keep their bees. We have no issues at all about amateurs having a few hives on the same patch...just not right next door.

When we start to work with a landowner or farmer we like to ensure exclusivity, on the commercial level that is, so make it clear that the small guys with up to around 10 hives are no issue for us and we have no objections to them being around unless there ends up being a lot of them. We take their presence into account when deciding how many go there, otherwise we end up cutting our own throats on forage.

What we don't like are folk who masquerade as a small guy looking for a place because they are desperate...the landowner sympathises...and the next thing there are 40 hives almost across the fence. Often followed by an allegation that their bees died because the 'beefarmer' nearby had 'diseased bees' that made their own die........... trust me...it happens.

Its usually the small that fear the big and invent all sorts of reasons why they should have the place to themselves. As another poster mentioned, it IS the landowners choice who they have on their land, and it can be unreasonable behaviour by a small beekeeper that costs them their place, not the actions of the big boys, who generally not fazed by things.

The classic two in recent years, both encountered more than once.

1. The farmer has 500 acres of OSR coming into flower. He wants to ensure adequate supplementary pollination. He asks local beefarmer to place hives. Joe Bloggs with 6 hives objects and gets very stroppy with farmer. Joe Bloggs told to sling his hook. Beefarmer held to blame...and every malaise that then befalls Bloggs's hives is the BF's fault...even if they were never on the same patch at the same time.
2. You cannot allow these bees here. 'It is well known that the local bees around here are a special type not found anywhere else in the world (select from a long list of characterisitics highlighted) and incoming bees will destroy the gene pool that is a unique resource we might need when (not if!) all the other (inferior?) bees die off. (Truth...in at least two cases other beefarmers had been moving into the area every spring for many years, and several local beekeepers bought in stock too....and we are virtually local to them anyway.) Have had two cases of farmers being threatened with violence by other beekeepers. One told the small guy where to go, the other moved us on as he feared the outcome.

Difficult enough finding an area that is "isolated"... well isolated enough for a fair chance of your virgins mating with drones that you have prepped up and cosseted... and then discovering a beekeeper.. possibly by ignorance and no malicious intent with a couple of colonies of cockerpoos is not something I would wish on anyone...

Fortune would have it as all is not lost as some of my bees that "are a special type not found anywhere else in the world" were open mated in isolation elsewhere with the help of some extremely kind people!

Chons da

 

[B+.]

2. You cannot allow these bees here. 'It is well known that the local bees around here are a special type not found anywhere else in the world (select from a long list of characterisitics highlighted) and incoming bees will destroy the gene pool that is a unique resource we might need when (not if!) all the other (inferior?) bees die off.

That's a "muppet" excuse. A real breeder won't leave the pedigree of his stock to chance. If he is using open mating and there are any other bees around, he either isn't a breeder or isn't doing his job properly.
I get sick of hearing about open mating and the effect of non-native bees on the "local" population. Firstly, WTF do they think the local population is? In my area they are nasty mongrels. Secondly, It's just an excuse because they haven't the interest, knowledge or skill to instrumentally inseminate their breeding stock.

 

[Into the lions den]

That's a "muppet" excuse. A real breeder won't leave the pedigree of his stock to chance. If he is using open mating and there are any other bees around, he either isn't a breeder or isn't doing his job properly.
I get sick of hearing about open mating and the effect of non-native bees on the "local" population. Firstly, WTF do they think the local population is? In my area they are nasty mongrels. Secondly, It's just an excuse because they haven't the interest, knowledge or skill to instrumentally inseminate their breeding stock.

I think you give it credit for too much thought. Its just a flimsy construct to try to exclude others from what they see as their exclusive patch, a form of territorialism.

There is a lot of self delusion goes on too...about the 'specialness' of what are often, in reality, pretty bog ordinary bees.. Seen some VILE stock foisted on the inexperienced in the name of 'good locally adapted' bees. About the only thing they were adapted to seemed like an ability to repel honey badgers.

 

[Swarm]

Looks like every thread deteriorates into the same petty digs.
WTF has type of bee or breeding methods got to do with the OP?
There was an earlier thread where a commercial keeper moved a load of hives into the same place as a 'little guy'.
The attitude then seemed to be "tough" or "it's up to the landowner" so surely the same applies now?
Consideration for others is a rare commodity these days.

 

[Into the lions den]

Difficult enough finding an area that is "isolated"... well isolated enough for a fair chance of your virgins mating with drones that you have prepped up and cosseted... and then discovering a beekeeper.. possibly by ignorance and no malicious intent with a couple of colonies of cockerpoos is not something I would wish on anyone...

Fortune would have it as all is not lost as some of my bees that "are a special type not found anywhere else in the world" were open mated in isolation elsewhere with the help of some extremely kind people!

Chons da

Was not talking about that type of location. These are situations encountered in areas of mainstream arable agriculture and a fair density of beekeepers and lots of forage, at least during crop flowerings. You are not comparing like with like.

I am respectful of conservation areas....except where it is an artificial and unofficial local construct purely to exclude other beeks.

FWIW...if I get nuc orders from remote areas....and I frequently do.......I always ask what the status of the local area is as regards varroa infestation and if its a conservation area, and if in doubt have followed it up with the relevant authorities to establish their view.

 

[For want of a better word]

That's a "muppet" excuse. A real breeder won't leave the pedigree of his stock to chance. If he is using open mating and there are any other bees around, he either isn't a breeder or isn't doing his job properly.
I get sick of hearing about open mating and the effect of non-native bees on the "local" population. Firstly, WTF do they think the local population is? In my area they are nasty mongrels. Secondly, It's just an excuse because they haven't the interest, knowledge or skill to instrumentally inseminate their breeding stock.

True... we had a "master class" from MC at the start of the season.... I had to modify my own kit, and now have been getting results.

B+... there was a video of a German couple traveling around with a caravan selling AI services to beekeepers... you probably have a link?
Wondered if you could share it with us great unwashed?
The interesting bit was the hives left at the roadside for drone collection.

Cheers.... Yeghes da

 

[Into the lions den]

Looks like every thread deteriorates into the same petty digs.
WTF has type of bee or breeding methods got to do with the OP?
There was an earlier thread where a commercial keeper moved a load of hives into the same place as a 'little guy'.
The attitude then seemed to be "tough" or "it's up to the landowner" so surely the same applies now?
Consideration for others is a rare commodity these days.

I don't know about other parts of the UK, but up here it is known as 'reheating old soup'.

The situations I described are the extreme. I generally find our presence is NOT a trigger for hostility, and those local beekeepers I encounter are, at least to my face, friendly and enjoy a chat. I also make a point of being available as a speaker to the local associations for their winter meetings, and hostile or loaded questions from the floor are unusual.

Consideration for others is far from dead...and I had some local beekeepers to thank for spotting issues with some of our hives after the storm Ali carnage and on their own initiative going and replacing roofs etc.

Local relationships are a thing that might need some work...but it nips a lot of problems that stem from a lack of understanding in the bud. There are some that sadly will never engage with you...c'est la vie.........their problem and I will not lose sleep over it.