Inverted sugar syrup? Anyone tried it?

[Haughton Honey]

"I have neved used thymol in syrup. It is not needed.

But if you do not know what to do, SHAKE THE BEES!!"



...................I agree that shook swarming (if that's what you're referring to?) is often a good option sometimes.

However, I'll let Hivemaker make the case for adding thymol to syrup as he's done it plenty of times before!

 

[Haughton Honey]

How could it do this? Thymol is an anti-fungicide and slows fermentation.

It takes an acid to invert sugar....citric or malic or similar (both of which are found in honey).

Gentle boiling time is 20 minutes.

Apologies. Reading the beginning of the thread I understood that the poster wanted to make his/her sugar keep longer.

"Anyway, once mixed, its supposed to last 6 months or so..."

Thymol does this.

 

[Finman]

However, I'll let Hivemaker make the case for adding thymol to syrup as he's done it plenty of times before!

Hivemaker uses it against nosema. It is not inverting question.

 

[Haughton Honey]

I know.

See post above!

 

[Finman]

"Anyway, once mixed, its supposed to last 6 months or so..."

.

?????????????????

When I feed bees in September sugar is OK in the hive in May = 9 months.
Then it should be finish that it does spoil the honey.

Where you all get those "good expert quessings" ?

If you make a jam, it needs over 50% sugar content.


.

 

[susbees]

Whilst it does take 20 minutes and acid to invert sugar it is not what I do (earlier post)...or others who have kept their bees alive so much longer . Post amended for blunder.

The very sensible note that HMF is toxic to bees is important (what does it stand for...trouble with abbreviations :S) and boiling and acid inversion can well cause this to happen as has been said. Cream of tartar seemingly isn't any good either which is not surprising as it doesn't occur in plants.

Sticking to simple sugar syrup and letting bees do what bees know best is probably sensible although their own honey is always going to be better for them.

 

[susbees]

ps Finman's use of the . speaks volumes

 

[Finman]

ps Finman's use of the . speaks volumes

Heh heh and heh

Based on what? :"Sticking to simple sugar syrup and letting bees do what bees know best is probably sensible although their own honey is always going to be better for them."

From where you get honey to sell if you feed it to bees?

******************

Honey has only sugar energy and pollen has other nutrition to bees.

I have not met much people on these forums who understand about "the nutrition of bees"
Just dad to son knowledge.
.

 

[susbees]

There are nutrients essential to bees in honey which we cannot replicate. Agreed? In the same way that cow milk will never be as good as a mother's for a baby.

So surely leaving some honey for the bees rather than removing it all is better for their health?

And so the discussion should not be selling or not, but how much is sensible to leave them for their health (whilst still providing a reasonable income for the beekeeper).

 

[Finman]

There are nutrients essential to bees in honey which we cannot replicate. Agreed? .

You are just wrong, sorry to say.

In mixture plan pollen there are nutrietients which cannot be replicate. But not in honey. At least I do not know any document which say that honey is necessary.

"So surely leaving some honey for the bees rather than removing it all is better for their health?"

How much is "some" and how much is "all" ?

I have wintered hivers with 100% sugar and hives are alive to next summer.

What do you find in honey chemical analysis:

http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=4&lang=en

.

 

[susbees]

So the vits, mins and FAs in honey are not remotely important for bee health? And the amount to leave was a question for debate...so let's debate .

 

[Finman]

.
You start....

 

[Erichalfbee]

I am still at bee school so know nothing but I am being taught one super is for the bees and anything else I can take.
I have a newly hived nuc so only half a hive. The bees will be my hobby so I will leave them their honey. They are not quite pets though the drones being haploid and therefore only half a bee are all called Eric.
I suppose it would all be different if my hive was part of a bigger commercial concern.

 

[Finman]

I am still at bee school so know nothing but I am being taught one super is for the bees and anything else I can take.
.

I have nursed bees 47 years as a hobby. Normally I have had 13 productive hives.
Profeesional beekeeping needs here over 500 hives.

Sometimes I take 120 kg from hive and sometimes 35 kg. I get honey about twice as much honey as professionals. I select best pastures. In my conred of land there are not much hives and I shoose untouched pastures. No other bees and only 2-4 hive per place.

No one has told me how much I should take, - or I have not listened.

However, in this cold Finland my most hives has just now 4 boxes. Dandelion and autumn rape and apple trees are blooming. Next yield plant is raspberry.

In autumn I leave those honey which are in pollen frames and in brood frames. The rest is mine.

 

[newportbuzz]

hi i am new to beekeping just half a year but i have read extensivly and came across a recipe for invert sugar syrup which i find easy to make if a bit time consuming. it is from "a practical manual of beekeping" by david cramp the recipe is on page 168 and 169 and goes as follows
"1000l sugar syrup (thick or thin) at 30-40 C
250 gm dried active bakers yeast
1l warm water
1 mix the yeast with a cup of sugar syrup and then 1l warm water
2 when yeast rises mix with sugar syrup and stir
3 increase temp till it reaches 65 C(kills yeast) making sure that it stays between 45 and 55 C for 2 hours( time needed to invert sugar at this temp longer for colder)
4 once it reaches 65 C turn off heat store and use
"

not an exact rendition but the gist of it
i have notice a taste diference in the syrup and it also changes colour to that of pressed apple juice. i have stored the syrup for over 2 mounths and so far it has not fermented further . i found the best way to do it is on the stove as it stops you having to keep lighting the cooker every time it cools down. i have also only done this in fairly small batches ie less that 10 gallons at a time

 

[Finman]

hi i am new to beekeping just half a year but i have read extensivly and came across a recipe for invert sugar syrup which i find easy to make if a bit time consuming. it is from "a practical manual of beekeping" by david cramp the recipe is on page 168 and 169 and goes as follows
"1000l sugar syrup (thick or thin) at 30-40 C
250 gm dried active bakers yeast
1l warm water
1 mix the yeast with a cup of sugar syrup and then 1l warm water
2 when yeast rises mix with sugar syrup and stir
3 increase temp till it reaches 65 C(kills yeast) making sure that it stays between 45 and 55 C for 2 hours( time needed to invert sugar at this temp longer for colder)
4 once it reaches 65 C turn off heat store and use
"

I am very experienced and I have read all honey bee nutrition researches from interenet. And I can tell you that David Cramps formula is totally nonsence. I havé never seen that kind of carbage!

Just now I have dried yeast 70 kg but I use it only in spring.

Here is new knowledge 150 pages about bee feeding

https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/05-054

.

 

[RoofTops]

Forget feeding it to the bees and don't heat the mixture to 65C either. Just let it ferment and then distill off the alcohol. After a glass or two all your beekeeping worries will not seem so bad and the world will look a better place.

You can even buy a small still legally from Vigo- http://www.vigoltd.com/copper-pot-still.php

Just don't get caught using it. But if you do use it make sure you distill it at least twice and return the first and last distilate to the pot I seem to recall....

 

[Dishmop]

Forget feeding it to the bees and don't heat the mixture to 65C either. Just let it ferment and then distill off the alcohol.

If bees like that as a feed I have some bottles of really c*** red wine they can have.

 

[Finman]

.
I have gove home wine to bees. They got drunk and did not found the entrance.
So, how they get honey load home?

 

[newportbuzz]

hey finman that looks like some interesting reading always happy to be enlightened. is there any similar information for the european climate as the australian one is just a little bit different