Insurance.

[birdsandbees]

Having just received my 'new' BBKA insurance it doesn't seem to cover much these days!
I'm sure it covered wooden National hives before but doesn't any longer, only queen excluders and smaller items.
Being a poly hive and Top bar hive owner it seems a bit pointless anyway.

 

[bjosephd]

Having just received my 'new' BBKA insurance it doesn't seem to cover much these days!

I'm sure it covered wooden National hives before but doesn't any longer, only queen excluders and smaller items.

Being a poly hive and Top bar hive owner it seems a bit pointless anyway.

I'm sorry but whaaaaat??!!

So the BDI they provide to replace all your gear if the inspector comes and burns it all in a pit will only replace queen excluders and smaller items?!

So my wooden Langstroth boxes, roofs, floors, etc are NOT covered?

Frames?


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[masterBK]

BDI is not BBKA insurance. Wooden hive parts not covered as they flame sterilised by inspector. Poly hives not covered as they will be sterilised by Inspector using bleach. If honey on hive then this loss covered.

BBKA insurance (paid as part of subs) covers 3rd party liability re your honey sales etc

 

[bjosephd]

What above are you saying is bbka and what is bdi?

Bbka obviously then doesn't cover any hive parts as it's only 3rd party. So why does it cover queen excluders?


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[Hivemaker.]

So why does it cover queen excluders?

It doesn't as far as I'm aware, that is covered by the BDI (bee disease insurance) which is a separate insurance, but added in as a package along with BBKA membership and their third party liability insurance, The BDI is just for a few hives, extra BDI insurance can be paid for up to the limit of 40 hives, or at least that was how it used to work.

 

[Little John]

Re: insurance, it's often occurred to me that if your only concern is with regard to being held liable for a 3rd-party misfortune - than all you need do is form yourself into a Limited Liability Company - one of those £50 off-the-shelf jobs (or at least they used to be £50).

However, if your concern is more for the poor unfortunate than for yourself, then a quality (for 'quality' read 'relatively expensive') 3rd-party insurance would certainly be the order of the day.

Then again - if you're working with out-apiaries, theft and/or vandalism cover would seem to be a good idea.

Depends very much where your priorities lie ...
LJ

 

[bjosephd]

Indeed. It's more that I'm trying to assess the true value of paying money to the BBKA.


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[linoleum bonypart]

Not heard of theft vandalism cover ?

 

[chrismcd]

Welsh or Scottish?

I was told last year that the Welsh and Scottish beekeeping associations had much better insurance rates than the BBKA because they had stayed with experienced underwriters.

Has anyone checked it out recently?

 

[Millet]

My insurance is cheaper than anyone's..

 

[For want of a better word]

Re: insurance, it's often occurred to me that if your only concern is with regard to being held liable for a 3rd-party misfortune - than all you need do is form yourself into a Limited Liability Company - one of those £50 off-the-shelf jobs (or at least they used to be £50).

However, if your concern is more for the poor unfortunate than for yourself, then a quality (for 'quality' read 'relatively expensive') 3rd-party insurance would certainly be the order of the day.

Then again - if you're working with out-apiaries, theft and/or vandalism cover would seem to be a good idea.

Depends very much where your priorities lie ...
LJ

A Limited Liability Company is viewed in law as an individual... and hence could be sued.
To avoid paying out compensation to an injured party, the directors of the Limited company would have to prove that they did not have the funds ( insured or not) to pay into the court to settle the action.
Solicitors, barristers etc will get involved escalating the costs.
Filing for bankruptcy could lead to the court not only banning the directors from becoming directors of a limited company again... but a custodial sentence and ceasure of assets ( Car house yacht etc etc) to pay court costs!

As far as I could work out the BDI insurance has only ever paid out* for frames destroyed under the directive and supervision of a Defra Bee Inspector when EFB or AFB has been found in a colony.... not for anything else... hives/ bees/queenexcluders/honey/ loss of profit etc etc.

* I have never met any beekeeper who has received compensation from BDI.

I attempted to obtain clarification on the level of insurance offered by the BBKA/BDI on product liability, when we first were asked for this by various Farmers Markets etc.... never got anywhere with it!
My guess scant in the least...possibly representation in Court if accused of negligence?

I now belong to the BBKA as a County member as this means I can elect not to have to pay the insurance element and still enjoy all of the other privileges of membership.

Policies for beekeepers are out there... try NFU Mutual...

Do not assume that you have cover. It is your responsibility to make sure you are buying the cover you want or need.

Yeghes da

 

[Poly Hive]

Looks as if there is a gap in the market.

PH

 

[amigadave]

As far as I could work out the BDI insurance has only ever paid out for frames destroyed under the directive and supervision of a Defra Bee Inspector when EFB or AFB has been found in a colony.... not for anything else... hives/ bees/queenexcluders/honey/ loss of profit etc etc.

There is a good FAQ on the BDI website about details of the insurance coverage, which describes an explicit lack of liability cover (I can't add a link as I have not posted enough yet). There is also a list of compensation rates for 2017, and the coverage is roughly:

• "standard" sized frames (not Apidea or other mini-nucs)
• queen excluders
• mesh floors
• saleable honey

Hive bodies are explicitly not covered by BDI.

The BBKA have an FAQ on insurance too, which includes a few details about the third party liability insurance that most BBKA members are covered by as part of their membership fee. A search for "bbka public liability insurance" should find it for you.

 

[Little John]

A Limited Liability Company is viewed in law as an individual... and hence could be sued.
To avoid paying out compensation to an injured party, the directors of the Limited company would have to prove that they did not have the funds ( insured or not) to pay into the court to settle the action.
Solicitors, barristers etc will get involved escalating the costs.
Filing for bankruptcy could lead to the court not only banning the directors from becoming directors of a limited company again... but a custodial sentence and ceasure of assets ( Car house yacht etc etc) to pay court costs!

Must be nice living in your world ...

Limited Liability Companies - the clue is in the name - why do you think people use them ?
Because they don't offer limited liability ... Think again. Theory vs practice.

LJ

 

[linoleum bonypart]

I always just assumed ! Hive bodies were insured

 

[alldigging]

I always just assumed ! Hive bodies were insured

They don't get destroyed... So you wouldn't need to claim for them.

Infected colonies are destroyed by burning
under the supervision of a Bee Inspector. The
bees are killed and, together, with the combs
are safely burned in a deep pit (Fig 20).
Hives and appliances can be sterilised by
thoroughly scorching them with a blow lamp
(Fig 21). Gloves, overalls, footwear and the
smoker are then washed thoroughly in washing
soda or hot soapy water

From the foulbrood leaflet on here http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?sectionid=26

 

[For want of a better word]

Must be nice living in your world ...

Limited Liability Companies - the clue is in the name - why do you think people use them ?
Because they don't offer limited liability ... Think again. Theory vs practice.

LJ

To limit liabilities for honest trading... not to avoid loosing their shirt by gross and deliberate mal practice!

When I looked into the BBKA insurance for Public liability ( that is included with ordinary membership) for cover for selling honey and bee related produce / products at Farmers Markets, I found it would not cover all of our sales.
The particular Farmers Market that we were selling at would not accept it,... the products definition that are insured under the BBKA member are very limited.

I opted out of paying for ANY of the insurances offered on the BBKA membership scheme by joining as a County member.

We now have cover for all of our beekeeping activities... and it is not cheap!

Do not buy a pig in a poke

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

A Limited Liability Company is viewed in law as an individual... and hence could be sued.
To avoid paying out compensation to an injured party, the directors of the Limited company would have to prove that they did not have the funds ( insured or not) to pay into the court to settle the action.

Not at all.
A limited liability company (LLC) is a corporate structure whereby the members of the company cannot be held personally liable for the company's debts or liabilities.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Looks like it's underwritten by Buckland Harvester Insurance Brokers.
I've contacted them to see what adding theft to the policy would cost

 

[alldigging]

Not at all.
A limited liability company (LLC) is a corporate structure whereby the members of the company cannot be held personally liable for the company's debts or liabilities.

Unless of course you are trading whilst insolvent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_while_insolvent