Insurance.

[birdsandbees]

apologies for posting then not responding, and thanks for the clarification on the cover.
I found my policy and have copied the cover listed directly from it below.

Compensation is given for the destruction of:-
British Standard Brood Frame Polycarbonate Quilt
All other Brood Frame sizes Wire Queen Excluder
British Standard Shallow Frame Slotted Steel Queen Excluder
All other Shallow Frame sizes Plastic Queen Excluder
Saleable Honey (40lb max per colony) Open Mesh Floors

Subject to Condition - Excellent (As New) 100%, Good 60%, Poor 20%.
No other property is covered. Compensation rates for this year can be found on the BDI website: www.beediseasesinsurance.co.uk
If claims have been made in both the previous two years compensation will be reduced by 25%. If claims have been made in all the previous three years compensation will be reduced by 50%. If claims have been made in all the previous four years compensation will be reduced by 75%.
The maximum compensation payable to an individual is £3,000 in any one year of insurance.
On the payment of a claim for any reason, other than for shook swarms, the number of colonies covered is reduced proportionately, i.e. by the number of colonies destroyed. If the number of colonies subsequently increases additional insurance cover must be obtained and will be subject to the 40-day rule.
Compensation for Small Hive Beetle and Tropilaelaps Infestation - Annual Scheme
A maximum amount of £50,000 per annum will be available to cover claims. Each eligible claim will be covered to a maximum of £150 per hive dependant on condition, providing the beekeeper is not otherwise insured or entitled to obtain compensation elsewhere. This amount will be pro-rata between all claims in any one year if the total claims received exceed £50,000. Settlement will therefore be made after all claims for that year are resolved. BDI cover will stop if statutory control ceases.

 

[mikepetty]

A Private Limited Company (Ltd) is a separate legal entity from its owners, the shareholders. The company can sue and be sued. If can even sue its owners and be sued by them. If the company is liable to its creditors, either through trading or court order, and cannot pay through lack of assets then the liability of the shareholders is limited to their shareholding.

It is a common misconception that setting up as an Ltd will protect the owners from legal action. Ltd companies also have directors. For a small Ltd the shareholders and directors will usually be one and the same. The directors of a company can be sued by any plaintiff. The usual grounds for this are that the directors have, in some way, mismanaged the company, say by offering defective honey for sale to the public.

So, whilst an owner of an Ltd cannot be sued by a third party as a shareholder of that company (the law suit would have to be taken out against the company), they can be sued in their capacity as directors if the plaintiff felt that they could prove that the directors had mismanaged the business.

The only way that I can see that a £50 off-the-shelf private limited company would give the owner some immunity to a civil action is if the owner/shareholder employed a director to run the business for them, but was not on the board themselves. Even this might not work as in English law there is the concept of a shadow director, someone not on the board, but who influences the board. Shadow directors can be sued as though they are directors.

Also, it is not possible to hide behind an Ltd to escape criminal prosecution.

If incorporating a £50 off-the-shelf Ltd provided immunity from action for 3rd party damages then there would be no such thing as third party insurance of any type.

 

[For want of a better word]

A Private Limited Company (Ltd) is a separate legal entity from its owners, the shareholders. The company can sue and be sued. If can even sue its owners and be sued by them. If the company is liable to its creditors, either through trading or court order, and cannot pay through lack of assets then the liability of the shareholders is limited to their shareholding.

It is a common misconception that setting up as an Ltd will protect the owners from legal action. Ltd companies also have directors. For a small Ltd the shareholders and directors will usually be one and the same. The directors of a company can be sued by any plaintiff. The usual grounds for this are that the directors have, in some way, mismanaged the company, say by offering defective honey for sale to the public.

So, whilst an owner of an Ltd cannot be sued by a third party as a shareholder of that company (the law suit would have to be taken out against the company), they can be sued in their capacity as directors if the plaintiff felt that they could prove that the directors had mismanaged the business.

The only way that I can see that a £50 off-the-shelf private limited company would give the owner some immunity to a civil action is if the owner/shareholder employed a director to run the business for them, but was not on the board themselves. Even this might not work as in English law there is the concept of a shadow director, someone not on the board, but who influences the board. Shadow directors can be sued as though they are directors.

Also, it is not possible to hide behind an Ltd to escape criminal prosecution.

If incorporating a £50 off-the-shelf Ltd provided immunity from action for 3rd party damages then there would be no such thing as third party insurance of any type.

I was just trying to explain that in more simple terms.... however as a previous ( now retired) managing director of a number of reasonable sized Limited Companies I can only add that company law is not simple.

On beekeeping insurance.... theft is our biggest (perceived) problem. BBKA insurance does not insure the beekeeper against that... or the consequential losses!

Wish it would stop raining ... I have work to get on with outside!!

Yeghes da

 

[mikepetty]

I was just trying to explain that in more simple terms.... however as a previous ( now retired) managing director of a number of reasonable sized Limited Companies I can only add that company law is not simple.

On beekeeping insurance.... theft is our biggest (perceived) problem. BBKA insurance does not insure the beekeeper against that... or the consequential losses!

Wish it would stop raining ... I have work to get on with outside!!

Yeghes da

icanhopit

My reply wasn't aimed at you.

 

[For want of a better word]

icanhopit

My reply wasn't aimed at you.

Splan!

... That is novel indeed... but keep posting as we could do with some expert advice*** on here.

'Hopit baiting is a Winters day passtime for some whilst being kept away from beekeeping.. my skin is a bit thicker than JBM's

***Mostly it comes from the man down the pub!

Yeghes da

 

[bjosephd]

This BBKA & BDI insurance appears to be seeming more and more pointless.

I don't really use queen excluders or mesh floors anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[bjosephd]

This BBKA & BDI insurance appears to be seeming more and more pointless.

I don't really use queen excluders or mesh floors anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[For want of a better word]

This BBKA & BDI insurance appears to be seeming more and more pointless.

I don't really use queen excluders or mesh floors anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Groundhog's day is tomorrow!
Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

This BBKA & BDI insurance appears to be seeming more and more pointless.

I don't really use queen excluders or mesh floors anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Groundhog's day is tomorrow!
Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

This BBKA & BDI insurance appears to be seeming more and more pointless.

Do you have public liability insurance to cover sales of your honey?
Covered with the BBKA insurance, £5,000,000 I think.
You can of course take out another public liability policy to cover you.

 

[Beefriendly]

If the company is liable to its creditors, either through trading or court order, and cannot pay through lack of assets then the liability of the shareholders is limited to their shareholding.

Exactly.

 

[amigadave]

Do you have public liability insurance to cover sales of your honey?
Covered with the BBKA insurance, £5,000,000 I think.
You can of course take out another public liability policy to cover you.

10 million, according to the BBKA! There's a certificate and policy wording on the website (in case you need the certificate for farmers markets and so on).

 

[Hivemaker.]

(in case you need the certificate for farmers markets and so on).

Liability insurance also needed to keep bees on most, if not all, of national trust land, etc.

 

[Beefriendly]

10 million, according to the BBKA! There's a certificate and policy wording on the website (in case you need the certificate for farmers markets and so on).

That's right. Many good farmers markets won't let you on unless you are also registered with your local environmental health authority and have a star rating. Many of the minor ones don't check up, they are just glad of some extra stall rental.

 

[For want of a better word]

10 million, according to the BBKA! There's a certificate and policy wording on the website (in case you need the certificate for farmers markets and so on).

I would not take that risk... one of our ( Devon) Farmers Markets management would not accept it, even though we gave them the BBKA certificate and the policy wording, together with my (then) full membership card.
Their requirement was for a fully comprehensive products and public liability cover in the name of the ( person/persons or partnership or )company, which of course we now have.

PLUS a full risk assessment for selling in their market!

Keeps out the "home bottled jam and chutney makers".... they said!!

Yeghes da

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Just got this back from the BBKAs insurers regarding their all risk policy

Unfortunately we are unable to cover hive’s/ bee’s kept outside if they are not on land that you are owned as it is deemed in the policy wording that it is not in your care, custody or control. We can however, cover any bee keeping equipment if this is in a locked premises.



We are currently looking into a scheme for all risks which may include bee’s and hives outside, this could take a few months however, to sort with an Insurer.
I wonder what percentage of forum members have hives on other peoples land.....

 

[For want of a better word]

Just got this back from the BBKAs insurers regarding their all risk policy

Unfortunately we are unable to cover hive’s/ bee’s kept outside if they are not on land that you are owned as it is deemed in the policy wording that it is not in your care, custody or control. We can however, cover any bee keeping equipment if this is in a locked premises.



We are currently looking into a scheme for all risks which may include bee’s and hives outside, this could take a few months however, to sort with an Insurer.
I wonder what percentage of forum members have hives on other peoples land.....

80%+ my guess.. but does that cover Bee disease in those colonies that are not in your care as on someone else's land.

Seems that these Insurance companies and estate agents wriggle ... until they fall off the hook!

Yeghes da

 

[wightbees]

What I would like to know is, if I join the BFA does insurance cost extra? As my local bka suggested I join the other due to too many hives?