Swarm in chimney - immediate options

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boywonder

House Bee
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
296
Reaction score
221
Location
Loughborough
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
11
Hi all. A family in my village have bees in their chimney (and, for reasons we all know, the local BKA won't deal with swarms in chimneys, and the local council's pest controllers won't deal with bees). They believe it is a swarm which took up residence on Monday, and - looking at the activity to try and estimate the size - I would say there is a chance it is a prime swarm.

Last night, I took a look, in the hope (ever the optimist) that the chimney pot would be safely accessible with a long ladder, and that the bees would be building comb off the cowl. Sadly, however, it's not going to be possible to get near to them without risk to life and limb - certainly without e.g. a cherry picker.

As such, I've had to leave it for now, but have left a poly nuc, with 2 old brood frames, and laced with lemongrass oil, in the close vicinity of the chimney. That said and done, I suspect the chances of the bees deciding to vacate the chimney in favour of the nuc at this stage are very slim.

I have suggested that a smoky fire might be enough to encourage the bees to leave, and that they might try this on Saturday, assuming the nuc has not lured them in by then. I have discussed this with another beekeeper, and judge that the limited amount of comb they will have built in the meantime is likely not to pose a serious risk of a chimney fire, or have blocked the flue. That said, I am coming around to the idea of them trying smoke pellets instead - especially having seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDSq46O5Tw (!!!)

- Any thoughts on the chances of success 1) of the nuc, and 2) of the smoking-out ?
- Any other thoughts, alternative suggestions or similar experiences ?
- Any ideas as to whom they should turn if (/when) this fails ? I can only suggest a professional pest control outfit, and suspect they would exterminate the bees

Basically, heeeelp !, please !!

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if it is indeed a Prime swarm then by Saturday the mated queen may well be laying up the comb that they will have build by then, I've had a Prime swarm queen laying by day three!

smoke rather than fire is the best option and sooner rather than later!, can you sit your smoker in the fireplace?

the other issue would be the poly Nuc, if they're too big they simply wont go into it, probably best to close off the OMF too as this can discourage them, I'd suggest either a double brood Nuc or a Hive to tempt them, the ideal volume being 40ltr, have it as high as possible rather than ground level as this will also be more attractive to them and as close to the chimney as is possible.

time is of the essence in this case as once they built comb and the queen is laying its going to be a right pain in the arse... been there done that!
 
Phenol would be worth a shot.
Towelling mat liberally wetted with a 25% mix in solution
above a heat source - a space heater may suffice, sat in the
fireplace.
Used here on clearance boards, with the heat source below
there's a good chance it's job done inside of an hour.
https://www.britannica.com/science/phenol

Bill
 
if it is indeed a Prime swarm then by Saturday the mated queen may well be laying up the comb that they will have build by then, I've had a Prime swarm queen laying by day three!



smoke rather than fire is the best option and sooner rather than later!, can you sit your smoker in the fireplace?



the other issue would be the poly Nuc, if they're too big they simply wont go into it, probably best to close off the OMF too as this can discourage them, I'd suggest either a double brood Nuc or a Hive to tempt them, the ideal volume being 40ltr, have it as high as possible rather than ground level as this will also be more attractive to them and as close to the chimney as is possible.



time is of the essence in this case as once they built comb and the queen is laying its going to be a right pain in the arse... been there done that!
Thanks for the helpful comments B&B; the fireplaces have been sealed, and smoke can certainly be delivered from the one of the two fireplaces; do you think that a bee smoker (which is what I think you are suggesting) will deliver enough smoke to sufficiently agitate the colony ??

I am also cognisant of the need to do this quickly, before there is a laying Queen. If the gods are on my side, it will be a larger cast swarm with a virgin Queen.

On the box - I have managed to locate that high (on the roof), near the chimney, so fingers crossed. Interesting about the OMF. This is largely obsured anyway, and, in terms of volume, this is a 14x12 format of nuc, so will tend towards the kind of size you are suggesting ........ so I think that bit is all good ?! (he says, hoping against hope) :)

Sent from my Google Pixelbook using Tapatalk
 
Phenol would be worth a shot.
Towelling mat liberally wetted with a 25% mix in solution
above a heat source - a space heater may suffice, sat in the
fireplace.
Used here on clearance boards, with the heat source below
there's a good chance it's job done inside of an hour.
https://www.britannica.com/science/phenol

Bill

Phenol is carcinogenic?

Tie a thick plastic sack over chimney pot so bees can not get in or out,,, block all other exits entrances... kiss them good riddance.
Sweep chimney before winter fires and fix a bee excluder mesh to chimney pot.

Chons da
 
Phenol would be worth a shot.
Towelling mat liberally wetted with a 25% mix in solution
above a heat source - a space heater may suffice, sat in the
fireplace.
Used here on clearance boards, with the heat source below
there's a good chance it's job done inside of an hour.
https://www.britannica.com/science/phenol

Bill

I have used Bee Quick on a couple of occasions, as you say a repellent may be an option if the OP can find some, certainly less likely to fill the house with pungent smoke :)

BoyWonder - Yes, I meant your bee smoker, that way you can control both the amount used and the heat source, good news on the Nuc I hope it works, please update when you can.
 
Phenol is carcinogenic?

Tie a thick plastic sack over chimney pot so bees can not get in or out,,, block all other exits entrances... kiss them good riddance.
Sweep chimney before winter fires and fix a bee excluder mesh to chimney pot.

Chons da

Oh dear! did someone get out of bed on the wrong side today? :rolleyes:

I think it's worth a shot at driving them out first, it may or may not work but if hes willing to try..

Besides, he's already said he can't reach the pot so bagging it wouldn't be possible.
 
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Oh dear! did someone get out of bed on the wrong side today? :rolleyes:

I think it's worth a shot at driving them out first, it may or may not work but if hes willing to try..

Besides, he's already said he can't reach the pot so bagging it wouldn't be possible.

simple solution... find a basket ball player to block the pot!!!
 
I would consider putting a (spare) frame of brood (with larvae in it) in the box you are trying to lure them into. I would probably set a really smoky fire of pine needles in the chimney.
 
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trouble is, pine needles as a fire burn incredibly fast and hot, the idea is to persuade them out not cook them alive :)

Unless your user name is Cheers that is
 
Yes they can . I'd dampen them down with water initially and then try to exclude most of the oxygen, perhaps squash them into a ball inside newspaper or something.

p.s. that is the pine needles I'd be squashing and wrapping in newspaper, not the bees
 
In my experience you have little hope of success using a nuc and/or smoke. An individual of my county spent over two hours trying to "smoke out" a colony who had set up home in a wood burner flue the day before at the beginning of this week without success and I've known several Beeks who have fixed a nuc to the sides of buildings not inches from the hole in the cavity the bee's are using to try and entice the bees out again, without success. As with all swarms, the Q is the key to success. get her get the swarm without her your lost.
 
Boywonder, could you extend a pole out to near proximity to the chimney? Perhaps a long extendable branch lopper? Tie a brood frame or some open brood onto the end of the lopper and place it as near as possible to the bees. When you get a decent number on it, lower it carefully into your swarm box and see what happens. If you can get smoke up the chimney at the same time it might be worth a shot too.
 
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Lighting a fire in a disused chimney, no idea what is above you, or when it was last cleaned.
Sounds like a recipe for disaster

Just that happened back in the last century when the new pub owner in our Surrey/ Sussex village decided to light a couple of old railway sleepers in the pretty little inglenook... fire brigade did not need a postcode as the inferno could be seen from miles away..... the old bees nest in the chimney added fuel to the fire!!!
Christmas dinner for the wealthy few who had booked in at the pub was ruined... soots all over the pretty white table cloths and napkins!

:calmdown::calmdown::calmdown:
 
Well, lads, lads, lads....

Having placed the nuc on Weds evening, I have had to work away for the last couple of days - so have been unable to be there to smoke the chimney with the homeowners (which we may still do tomorrow). However, the updates I have had seem to suggest the bees might have taken to the nuc !!

I don't want to get too presumptuous at this stage, until I have seen them ...

... and, before I get a roasting, I apologise for the shabby taping of the nuc to the chimney to better anchor it. It is pretty secure there - believe me. I did have both rope and ratchet straps, but could not safely get these round the girth of the stack ... It's also weighted inside with high-density bricks resting on the OMF ...

So - video 1 at around midday yesterday. The girls are showing much interest in the box:http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5cdf3cc50c10e/Video_1605_midday_01.mp4

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... followed by updates indicating that the nuc was getting busier and the chimney less so, plus a video in the evening appearing to show fanning at the entrance ... and then today (albeit there was not much flying, due to the weather) another video update (attached), which seems to show acticity almost exclusively at the box.

Do you think I have nailed it ?? Tomorrow will tell !http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5cdf3f2a3c331/Video_1705_morning_00.mp4

Sent from my Google Pixelbook using Tapatalk
 
IF they are not robbing whatever in the nucleus 0r setting
a cast into the nucleus..?.. you've got them.
Driving what's in the chimney out will seal the deal.
Great to see... thanks.

Bill
 

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