Hives, Sizes and Management

[jenkinsbrynmair]

you seem intent on beating it to death ?

Let's be honest and even minded here - the only attempts at beating anything to death has been the constant running down of nationals and the disparagement and dismissal of anyone who keeps bees in them on the last few pages.

 

[pargyle]

Let's be honest and even minded here - the only attempts at beating anything to death has been the constant running down of nationals and the disparagementand dismissal of anyone who keeps bees in them on the last few pages.

Sorry .. I've just looked back - 5 posts in 54 in this thread and I can't see any disparagement or dismissal from RD ... just from those who view long deep hives as abominations ....

 

[Ian123]

Well ... I can't see where you got that idea. The Dartington Long Deep Hive has been around since 1975 and has been mentioned many times on here. There's plenty about them on the internet - I haven't seen Robin pushing anything and I rather doubt that he's made a fortune out of his invention over the last nearly 50 years. I don't know what's the matter with you lot ... why is it when someone mentions something that is a bit off the beaten track you seem intent on beating it to death ?

There's room for everyone on here - even those with a slightly different slant on beekeeping - it all adds to a richer tapestry. Let's not drive another member with some ideas to add to the forum into the waste land ...

As that’s aimed at me I’ll reply
I at no point criticised any hive or indeed it’s designer however quirky
What doesn’t add to a rich tapestry is a whole load of Carp and incorrect statements stated as truths. Hence me asking repeatedly for him to answer a few questions regarding his truths. Could you or any other beekeeper look at those statements and say they are correct! Would you let such rubbish stand and yes put me in a room with such individuals I’ll ask them to their faces.

 

[pargyle]

As that’s aimed at me I’ll reply
I at no point criticised any hive or indeed it’s designer however quirky
What doesn’t add to a rich tapestry is a whole load of Carp and incorrect statements stated as truths. Hence me asking repeatedly for him to answer a few questions regarding his truths. Could you or any other beekeeper look at those statements and say they are correct! Would you let such rubbish stand and yes put me in a room with such individuals I’ll ask them to their faces.

It was not aimed specifically at you but I've clearly struck a note that resonates ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

not really - but we all now know which side of the camp you firmly sit on this one

 

[user 20297]

I find it very interesting to hear detailed descriptions and explanations of any alternative approach to beekeeping. That's particularly so when a beekeeper with the gravitas that possibly attaches to the designer of the Dartington is here.
There is something to learn when a beekeeper is explaining the thinking behind their alternative approach, even when you are not wanting nor are persuaded to follow them

 

[pargyle]

not really - but we all now know which side of the camp you firmly sit on this one

You know that's not true ... I have a tolerance of how anyone keeps their bees ... I have one LDH - built originally out of necesssity as I lacked the funds to purchase a standard hive. My other hives are all Paynes Polys 14 x 12 which I like a lot ... I've always been open and honest about my beekeeping - it is off the wall but I don't thrust my ways down anyone's throat, I think we should all be tolerant of the opinions of others and it just strikes me that there is an element evident in the forum that seem to delight in picking holes in anyone who provides an opinion that does not meet their narrow views... and it's not healthy. You have complained in the past that people have been hounded off the forum by constantly being pilloried by a gang ... let's not make the mistake again and lose a beekeeper who has been around for a long time and has what this forum has always thrived on - an innovatibve streak. You have it in spades ... recognise it in others.

 

[fian]

The first division in the beekeeping world is between those who prefer to move frames and those who prefer to move boxes.
For me, as everything is in the middle point, that is, knowing what and when to move each element, be it a frame or a box.
Perhaps this is also the most difficult to transmit or teach.

 

[Ian123]

It was not aimed specifically at you but I've clearly struck a note that resonates ...

Still not answered the questions though has he. You also didn’t say if you agreed with them or not?

 

[Ian123]

I find it very interesting to hear detailed descriptions and explanations of any alternative approach to beekeeping. That's particularly so when a beekeeper with the gravitas that possibly attaches to the designer of the Dartington is here.
There is something to learn when a beekeeper is explaining the thinking behind their alternative approach, even when you are not wanting nor are persuaded to follow them

Nothing wrong with an alternative approach if that’s what you like…..but why make stuff up.?

 

[Ian123]

You know that's not true ... I have a tolerance of how anyone keeps their bees ... I have one LDH - built originally out of necesssity as I lacked the funds to purchase a standard hive. My other hives are all Paynes Polys 14 x 12 which I like a lot ... I've always been open and honest about my beekeeping - it is off the wall but I don't thrust my ways down anyone's throat, I think we should all be tolerant of the opinions of others and it just strikes me that there is an element evident in the forum that seem to delight in picking holes in anyone who provides an opinion that does not meet their narrow views... and it's not healthy. You have complained in the past that people have been hounded off the forum by constantly being pilloried by a gang ... let's not make the mistake again and lose a beekeeper who has been around for a long time and has what this forum has always thrived on - an innovatibve streak. You have it in spades ... recognise it in others.

In reference to hounding people off I suggest you think about the obviously derogatory or quite frankly incorrect statements some make, and you would expect them not to be questioned or pulled up? That’s not hounding that’s just questioning rubbish or incorrect statements. The fact they spit the dummy when they are questioned or can’t provide any info rather proves the point! and then they claim to be hounded

 

[Ian123]

I would also add that such rhetoric is very similar to what happened on the BBKA site mid 2000s… there was an inundation of top bar beeks claiming those with square boxes beefarmers and the like are the devil incarnate. I was even told my bees would die in my poly hives from fumes. The ringleader in question would come on stir the pot with a couple of cronies them chuck a tady and leave. Again that’s not hounding questioning rubbish is not hounding!!!!!!! I’d also suggest those not wanting to be questioned(hounded) don’t make derogatory or silly statements as fact? Is that not reasonable.
Some of us with long memories have seen it all before.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can we all just cool it, please.
Can we just assume that Robin likes his LDHs and doesn't like Nationals.
I doubt any of his posts will convert anybody.
Most of us use Nationals and are happy with them. I've absolutely no intention of trying a heavy immoveable hive.
A few beginners might, some may stick with them but I suspect most won't
The Long Deep Hive will remain a quirky oddity

 

[drex]

I run mainly Nationals, mainly wood, but some poly. I also run a KTBH, Warrè, and a homemade long hive taking DN4's. All need slightly different management, as each performs slightly differently. I have learned a lot about bees through this. The bees seem to thrive whatever box they are in. Each to his own.

 

[JamezF]

Can we all just cool it, please.

You know how it is. Nothing brings out the grumpiness in people like Christmas does

James

 

[rdartington]

Well ... I can't see where you got that idea. The Dartington Long Deep Hive has been around since 1975 and has been mentioned many times on here. There's plenty about them on the internet - I haven't seen Robin pushing anything and I rather doubt that he's made a fortune out of his invention over the last nearly 50 years. I don't know what's the matter with you lot ... why is it when someone mentions something that is a bit off the beaten track you seem intent on beating it to death ?

There's room for everyone on here - even those with a slightly different slant on beekeeping - it all adds to a richer tapestry. Let's not drive another member with some ideas to add to the forum into the waste land ...

Just to reiterate - i developed the DLD hive to suit my own beekeeping on the roof of a 5-storey house. It derived from pushing two Deep National together, back to back, and then removing the two back sides to make one long box divisible with a divider board. Saves having to have a spare hive/nuc hive for every National. It works for me , so after ten years I published ‘New Beekeeping as a new presentation of old principles. Northern Bee Books publish and I don’t ask for any royalties - it is just a contribution to the literature of beekeeping - for those whose minds are open to progress.
The other point is that the DLD is designed to be made at home from ply and softwood battens along the top - and for the attached legs. ‘Construction Information for Dartington hives’ is also published by NBB, with layouts to show how the pieces can be cut from the ply sheets - you just take the diagrams to a local builders mercant and get all cut to accuracy. Then you assemble at home using a pair of window clamps. So it is minimum cost, for those for whom that is important.
This forum shows there are many who are just not interested in the possibility that a 100 year old hive design might be improved for our changed modern conditions - but there are some. If beekeeping does move forward, they will not be part - no matter.
I will continue to offer information, as clearly described as I can, as I suspect the problem is that, while some people can visualise in three dimensions what words mean, others lack that ability - they just cannot see it - so they feel they must attack to justify their inabilty to join the discussion.
Last word - although designed for home manufacture - I was an engineer so like to make my own - the DLD. Hive was available for some years in kit form from Stamfordham Ltd, until the workshop in Lithuania closed down. Thorne's sold it made-up for a bit but that was expensive of course. There is an opportunity dor some other hive maker to offer it - I would welcome and help publicity. Omlet adopted the principles for their beehaus and gave me 8 DLDls for use of my copyright on the management info they put on line.
I have been given 9 ‘well loved’ DLD’s from aged beekeepers that I hope to offer as ‘loan hives’ after renovation, if anyone wants to find out for themselves if it is easier for them to operate, especially over swarm control.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This forum shows there are many who are just not interested in the possibility that a 100 year old hive design might be improved for our changed modern conditions - but there are some. If beekeeping does move forward, they will not be part - no matter.

Do you really think so? Do we really need to further improve the National? That’s been done already.
We have poly top space Nationals freely available and Langstroth as a sensible world wide alternative

 

[Newbeeneil]

Why all the stress on hive types?
As beekeepers we have all made our choice and 90% are happy with that choice. Why the need to convince people that your choice is better than anyone else’s?
As has been said many times, bees are happy in any protective box!

 

[buffon]

Just to reiterate - i developed the DLD hive to suit my own beekeeping on the roof of a 5-storey house. It derived from pushing two Deep National together, back to back, and then removing the two back sides to make one long box divisible with a divider board. Saves having to have a spare hive/nuc hive for every National. It works for me , so after ten years I published ‘New Beekeeping as a new presentation of old principles. Northern Bee Books publish and I don’t ask for any royalties - it is just a contribution to the literature of beekeeping - for those whose minds are open to progress.
The other point is that the DLD is designed to be made at home from ply and softwood battens along the top - and for the attached legs. ‘Construction Information for Dartington hives’ is also published by NBB, with layouts to show how the pieces can be cut from the ply sheets - you just take the diagrams to a local builders mercant and get all cut to accuracy. Then you assemble at home using a pair of window clamps. So it is minimum cost, for those for whom that is important.
This forum shows there are many who are just not interested in the possibility that a 100 year old hive design might be improved for our changed modern conditions - but there are some. If beekeeping does move forward, they will not be part - no matter.
I will continue to offer information, as clearly described as I can, as I suspect the problem is that, while some people can visualise in three dimensions what words mean, others lack that ability - they just cannot see it - so they feel they must attack to justify their inabilty to join the discussion.
Last word - although designed for home manufacture - I was an engineer so like to make my own - the DLD. Hive was available for some years in kit form from Stamfordham Ltd, until the workshop in Lithuania closed down. Thorne's sold it made-up for a bit but that was expensive of course. There is an opportunity dor some other hive maker to offer it - I would welcome and help publicity. Omlet adopted the principles for their beehaus and gave me 8 DLDls for use of my copyright on the management info they put on line.
I have been given 9 ‘well loved’ DLD’s from aged beekeepers that I hope to offer as ‘loan hives’ after renovation, if anyone wants to find out for themselves if it is easier for them to operate, especially over swarm control.

Both the books you mention have been uploaded on scribd. I hope it is okay for me to share the links:




I read the first link a while ago and found it an interesting read with some great ideas.

 

[buffon]

Also some excellent advice on safe working here https://www.beesource.com/attachments/b2-dld-introduction-spring-08-p-cmp-10-1-14-pdf.67134/