Here come comes Hive Beetle !

[For want of a better word]

Beekeeping utopias are always at the end of a rainbow, it's the potential to work towards one, unfettered by continual genetic flux that excites me.
The grass is always greener but from what I see the closest to beekeeping utopia that would fit with us is what the Germans have achieved, we could never do this with carnies though as open matings would always lead to crosses, if we made similar gains with Amm we could have a situation as close to utopia as I can envisage with beekeepers across the land being able to access quality bees and open mate them and retain the gains in a sustainable fashion.

Sustainable beekeeping without imports.... now that could catch on!

I'm up for that idea!!

Chons da

 

[Beefriendly]

if we made similar gains with Amm .

This is the big problem with Amms, despite them being bred for centuries no-one has made any gains. You cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
It's probably why Germany got rid of their Amm's and replaced with Carnies. The natural, not even selected for, Carnies where a better bee already. As were the fecund Italian queens that are one of the most popular bees in the world.

I'm all for one race of bees in the UK but not Amm's.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Beekeeping utopias are always at the end of a rainbow, it's the potential to work towards one, unfettered by continual genetic flux that excites me.
The grass is always greener but from what I see the closest to beekeeping utopia that would fit with us is what the Germans have achieved, we could never do this with carnies though as open matings would always lead to crosses, if we made similar gains with Amm we could have a situation as close to utopia as I can envisage with beekeepers across the land being able to access quality bees and open mate them and retain the gains in a sustainable fashion.

I think unless you do something similar to the carnica population there will never be progress. Really what's being created then is an Amm subspecies to replace or eradicate the wild/unselected genes

 

[mbc]

I think unless you do something similar to the carnica population there will never be progress. Really what's being created then is an Amm subspecies to replace or eradicate the wild/unselected genes

Yup

 

[foghornleghorn]

Yup

It would be a lot easier to just replace those wild genes with buckfast or carnica...

 

[mbc]

It would be a lot easier to just replace those wild genes with buckfast or carnica...

Easier?! You'd have to enforce all beekeepers to get shot of their bees and replace with buckfast or carnies, almost simultaneously without any virgins in the air to get mated by native or near native drones.
This is why Amm is the only option, for whatever reason they have preferential mating success here.

 

[drex]

It would be a lot easier to just replace those wild genes with buckfast or carnica...

I prefer lions over tigers so why dont we just shoot all the tigers to make it easier for the lions

 

[Ian123]

Beekeeping utopias are always at the end of a rainbow, it's the potential to work towards one, unfettered by continual genetic flux that excites me.
The grass is always greener but from what I see the closest to beekeeping utopia that would fit with us is what the Germans have achieved, we could never do this with carnies though as open matings would always lead to crosses, if we made similar gains with Amm we could have a situation as close to utopia as I can envisage with beekeepers across the land being able to access quality bees and open mate them and retain the gains in a sustainable fashion.

To say we could not do what the Germans have done is incorrect they overcame a background of amm as well, to say we don’t have the process/organisations in place to do it with any strain of bee is more to the point.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I prefer lions over tigers so why dont we just shoot all the tigers to make it easier for the lions

Why? lions and tigers rarely frequent the same zones....... lions savanna and tigers jungles.

Similar to bees I suspect

Now where's my tin hat!

 

[mbc]

To say we could not do what the Germans have done is incorrect they overcame a background of amm as well, to say we don’t have the process/organisations in place to do it with any strain of bee is more to the point.

Im hoping we never descend into a totalitarian dictatorship which was necessary for the Germans to get where they did regarding their bees.

 

[For want of a better word]

To say we could not do what the Germans have done is incorrect they overcame a background of amm as well, to say we don’t have the process/organisations in place to do it with any strain of bee is more to the point.

Read somewhere that the DNA analyses on the so called German Carnica ... had a lot of old German brown Amm bee in their genetics!

UK average 45% Amm... probably higher!

I can see why some beekeepers claim to have aggressive locals when they keep importing bees with aggressive genetics, is the aggressive trait a recessive gene?

OMG I see another thread being closed as the nere-do-wells rally to the call!!!

 

[Ian123]

“Read somewhere that the DNA analyses on the so called German Carnica ... had a lot of old German brown Amm bee in their genetics!”
Yes seen that as well not sure of the percentage though, how did you get the figure for 45% amm in the U.K.?

 

[Swarm]

UK average 45% Amm... probably higher!

In some places considerably higher.

 

[mbc]

how did you get the figure for 45% amm in the U.K.?

That was quoted in the nhs presentation Jo Widdicombe gave, from the Cathy Thomas paper from data extrapolated from the randon apiary survey iirc.

 

[Ian123]

Thks....got a link pls if not I will look later

 

[For want of a better word]

That was quoted in the nhs presentation Jo Widdicombe gave, from the Cathy Thomas paper from data extrapolated from the randon apiary survey iirc.

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/5211/1/CorrectedThesis3.pdf

Catherine Thompson's PhD

 

[Beefriendly]

That was quoted in the nhs presentation Jo Widdicombe gave, from the Cathy Thomas paper from data extrapolated from the randon apiary survey iirc.

Bit dated, about 8 years ago...and imports have increased

 

[Millet]

Bit dated, about 8 years ago...and imports have increased

 

[mbc]

Bit dated, about 8 years ago...and imports have increased

Good point, lobby your mp to have another random apiary survey done , at the time it was only the most comprehensive large scale bee study ever done anywhere, using the most up to date analytical tools available, more than likely it is still the most comprehensive assay of a nations bees ever done. Why not ask to have it undertaken annually, it would keep those pesky sbi's on their toes!

 

[mbc]

That was quoted in the nhs presentation Jo Widdicombe gave, from the Cathy Thomas paper from data extrapolated from the randon apiary survey iirc.

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/5211/1/CorrectedThesis3.pdf

Catherine Thompson's PhD

Yes, thanks For want of a better word, my apologies, especially to Catherine if she happens to read this.