Here come comes Hive Beetle !

[Millet]

The E-Cat 'Cold Fusion' Machine springs to mind!

Yeghes da

Why..?..

 

[SDM]

The B4 ( Bring Back Black Bees) CIC has amassed and collated a lot of data supporting the now well known fact that the UK population of Apis mellifera mellifera was not wiped out during the last century and in fact large pockets remain very much extant in certain areas ( notably Northumberland, highlands and islands of Scotland, Wales and Cornwall and Isle of Man)

a

So why did we import many hundreds of thousands of Amm colonies in the early 1900's ?
And what evidence is there that the Amm types found in the UK today are not simply descendants of those imports ?

 

[For want of a better word]

So why did we import many hundreds of thousands of Amm colonies in the early 1900's ?
And what evidence is there that the Amm types found in the UK today are not simply descendants of those imports ?

Precisely what the research is about... seems that the Cornish Amm is a remnant of the post ice age population.

Speaking to a real expert on this and he said that they were looking into "museum specimens" to evaluate how much introgression had occurred into the extant UK Amm population since the mass importation of exotic non native species |Ca 1860.
I have not seen the Welsh DNA results so I am afraid I can not comment on their parentage!

Yeghes da

 

[SDM]

Precisely what the research is about... seems that the Cornish Amm is a remnant of the post ice age population.

Speaking to a real expert on this and he said that they were looking into "museum specimens" to evaluate how much introgression had occurred into the extant UK Amm population since the mass importation of exotic non native species |Ca 1860.
I have not seen the Welsh DNA results so I am afraid I can not comment on their parentage!

Yeghes da

Looking into !?!? A complete breakdown of DNA from pre IOW disease UK Amm has been available for over a decade.
Dylan Elen works in the same office as Dr Malhotra who has the samples. Strange then that his Amm breeding efforts are so closely tied to German breeding groups.

 

[SDM]

It's quite simple to see where the UK and Ireland's Amm come from, there's an Amm family tree in Eigil Holme s bee breeding and genetics.
The Colonsay, Galtea and Northumberland Amm are all identical and come from Brest. Southern Ireland's are identical to Norway. Cornwall didn't apparently have a pure population according to the table. Itll be interesting to see where they come from.

 

[mbc]

It's quite simple to see where the UK and Ireland's Amm come from, there's an Amm family tree in Eigil Holme s bee breeding and genetics.
The Colonsay, Galtea and Northumberland Amm are all identical and come from Brest. Southern Ireland's are identical to Norway. Cornwall didn't apparently have a pure population according to the table. Itll be interesting to see where they come from.

This is misinformation, there's the fairly recent Irish work that refutes it, also if you could be bothered to read it the work by Catherine Thompson linked in this thread clearly makes what you just wrote a nonsense.
I know it's winter but try and stay under your bridge.

 

[mbc]

So why did we import many hundreds of thousands of Amm colonies in the early 1900's ?
And what evidence is there that the Amm types found in the UK today are not simply descendants of those imports ?

Hundreds of thousands?? Source?
I think you might be confused.

 

[SDM]

Hundreds of thousands?? Source?
I think you might be confused.

No single source but primarily from having read several years of the British bee journal and beekeepers advisor.

From memory the Irish study just says that unique markers were found. That in no way contradicts the relationships established from sequencing the CO4 gene
as in Eigil Holm' s book.

 

[SDM]

This is misinformation, there's the fairly recent Irish work that refutes it, also if you could be bothered to read it the work by Catherine Thompson linked in this thread clearly makes what you just wrote a nonsense.
I know it's winter but try and stay under your bridge.

Any chance you could be more specific on the Thompson study , I've read it before but can't think what you mean.

 

[Finman]

Precisely what the research is about... seems that the Cornish Amm is a remnant of the post ice age population.



Yeghes da

Last Ice Age started 100 000 years ago and finished 10 000 years ago . Treeles tundra reached to Mediterranean .

Honey bee has no change to live on tundra.

For want for better knowledge

 

[mbc]

Any chance you could be more specific on the Thompson study , I've read it before but can't think what you mean.

I'm not going back over 170 odd pages but specifically refuting your point taken from Egil's book, the key to the pie charts showing genetic origin clearly distinguishes indigenous Amm material and continental Amm material.
The 42% + of Amm indicated in the background population of our bees taken from the ras doesn't include Amm from the continent iirc.

 

[mbc]

Last Ice Age started 100 000 years ago and finished 10 000 years ago . Treeles tundra reached to Mediterranean .

Honey bee has no change to live on tundra.

For want for better knowledge

The dordogne in France remained temperate and it's thought that's where bees survived and spread from to repopulate north western Europe post the last ice age. Cornwall does exist in a lovely pocket of otherworldlyness though, so who knows?

 

[Beefriendly]

Any chance you could be more specific on the Thompson study , I've read it before but can't think what you mean.

Not sure if this is what he was referring to but it's her graph of Ammness with bees from different areas....Nothing is totally pure. No attempt was made to distinguish French Amms from English Amms, (a lot of French Amms went to the highlands after IofW) she was looking at introgression markers.

 

[mbc]

Not sure if this is what he was referring to but it's her graph of Ammness with bees from different areas....Nothing is totally pure. No attempt was made to distinguish French Amms from English Amms, (a lot of French Amms went to the highlands after IofW) she was looking at introgression markers.

A pie chart is a circle divided into slices to give a visual representation of percentages.

 

[Beefriendly]

A pie chart is a circle divided into slices to give a visual representation of percentages.

Yes, but there are several graphic ways of showing percentages, this is one form Katherine chose to illustrated the % of Ammness in many samples from many areas and was published in her PhD thesis.

 

[Stiffy]

A pie chart wouldn’t provide the same level of detail as a column. I haven’t read the paper but I believe the chart above does include margins of error.
S

 

[Finman]

The dordogne in France remained temperate and it's thought that's where bees survived and spread from to repopulate north western Europe post the last ice age. Cornwall does exist in a lovely pocket of otherworldlyness though, so who knows?

How do you know that? Somebody saw it?.... and Cornwall's lovely pocket
100 000 years.

....What ever.

 

[Beefriendly]

The dordogne in France remained temperate and it's thought that's where bees survived and spread from to repopulate north western Europe post the last ice age. Cornwall does exist in a lovely pocket of otherworldlyness though, so who knows?

Think you need to read some up to date literature on where they re-populated from after the ice age.
I suggest for starters "THE ORIGIN OF WEST EUROPEAN SUBSPECIES OF HONEYBEES (APIS MELLIFERA): NEW INSIGHTS FROM MICROSATELLITE AND MITOCHONDRIAL DATA"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1558-5646.1998.tb01839.x

Evidence points to Asia, not Africa as previously thought.

 

[For want of a better word]

Think you need to read some up to date literature on where they re-populated from after the ice age.
I suggest for starters "THE ORIGIN OF WEST EUROPEAN SUBSPECIES OF HONEYBEES (APIS MELLIFERA): NEW INSIGHTS FROM MICROSATELLITE AND MITOCHONDRIAL DATA"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1558-5646.1998.tb01839.x

Evidence points to Asia, not Africa as previously thought.

Listened to a number of lecturers today ( B4 conference) by the leading Bee Biologists and Geneticist in the UK.....schools out on the origins of where the honeybee known as the dark European bee came from, but probably followed mans rout to Cornwall and other parts of the British Isles from AFRICA!

One indisputable fact emerged.... if importation of bees from possibly infected areas is allowed to continue....

Here come comes Hive Beetle !

 

[Beefriendly]

but probably followed mans rout to Cornwall and other parts of the British Isles from AFRICA!

You need to afford speakers who are little more clued up.
Findings suggest early European man, like bees, might also have come originally from Asia...
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/asian-origin-human-ancestors
Do wish you would add some factual references to back up your largely rhetoric ramblings.