'Good tempered bees'

[oliver90owner]

I said local strains, not restricted at all.

I am quite sure my queens mate with drones from other local colonies. There are enough in the area! I am not averse to collecting the odd swarm and giving them a home. They would be fairly local to me as well.

I just look for the traits I want in my bees when selecting the queens to go forward as my next generation of bees. The main ones are brood pattern, docility, non-following. If I have enough (not usually), too bad. I put up with the best I have. What I mean, to be more precise, is I do not particularly want imported queens - as in 'foreign' origin. The bees can look after their genetic diversity quite nicely. They are spread over more than several square kilometres at different times of the year; all I do is select out those nastier ones and try to encourage the more docile type. Don't always succeed, but that is 'genetic diversity in action' for you.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

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Local + local = double local.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman,

Bees have bred 'locally' for millions of years. That means the gene pool spreads steadily, but without the multi-cultural type society we have amongst us now. I am quite happy for that to continue. While I have no issue with inter-racial marriages, I am against the increasing practice of 'marriages of convenience' for other reasons.

As I have said before, I am a hobbyist rather than a commercial enterprise.

RAB

 

[grizzly]

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Local + local = double local.

Aha Finman, you've been to the Isle of Wight then.

 

[Finman]

Finman,

Bees have bred 'locally' for millions of years. RAB

Yes, and to every year to every country it is sent mated queens from other countries.
Next day they are local.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman,

I agree.

But a lot of those queens, while getting a good honey yield that season may be superceded or lost over winter. Either way there will only be some left the next season to provide drones for possible breeding. Those will only give 50% of the genes of any queens they might impregnate. That is a trade-off I am prepared to accept. Most are likely replaced by another foreign queen by the time they would be producing drones anyway! I like bees that are local and able to exist without needing a huge amount of help from the beekeeper.

They might be sustainable after I am gone, provided man can reverse all the other ills they have introduced to the honey bee species. Yes, I am bit 'green' when it comes to man's interfering folly over the short years of existence. I do believe humans will be the architect of their own extinction.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

Finman,

I agree.

But a lot of those queens, while getting a good honey yield that season may be superceded or lost over winter.

I loose perhaps 1 queen out of 20 hives during winter. Not more. In spring I will notice that more queen is spoiled because of nosema.

Either way there will only be some left the next season to provide drones for possible breeding.

Even if I kill every single drone from my hives queens get enough drones from other beekeepers. In Britain you have beehives everywhere.

I like bees that are local and able to exist without needing a huge amount of help from the beekeeper.

I bye every year 3 queens from professional beekepers to test what they are and compared to my present hives. I do not even try to make own stock. I have went to that trap couple of times. Stupid idea to bee a bee breeder with 20 hives in uncontrolled mating situation.

They are just local mongrels and like local crosbreeded dogs runnin on village highway.

They might be sustainable after I am gone, provided man can reverse all the other ills they have introduced to the honey bee species. Yes, I am bit 'green' when it comes to man's interfering folly over the short years of existence. I do believe humans will be the architect of their own extinction.

I give not a penny for "sustainable beekeeping". It is only a love story. Nothing real.

 

[Finman]

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Best tempered bees I have got from queens which have been instrumentaly inseminated queens.

I do not know what is local? 500 km to east or to north? Russian border is 50 km to east. Estonia is 50 km to south. Ok, I bought queens from 500 km to north. Not "local" but surely from area where climate is more severe than on my area.

I do not want even piss to the direction where bees are not selected in professional level.

 

[SixFooter]

Is it not a good idea to do a bit of both? i.e buy some in but produce local ones as well. Then bring on lots of them to see what they are like and cull the not so good ones. If we all did this, the gene pools would be strengthened and as long as we rigorously get rid of bees with undesirable traits, we still get the type of bees we want. They would, however, be more diverse in terms of the genes we dont select for.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yes, for the dog lovers (and others), on the forum, Crufts has been shown to exhibit good examples of pure breeds? Well, if that is what we should expect from pure breeds, then I will stick to my pedigree mongrels.

Regards, RAB

 

[Peebels]

Hello All

Just as a matter of interest, whilst that subject of bee temperament is being discussed, could anyone comment on the temperament of the 'superbees'? Both for initial and subsequent generations?

p

 

[ian]

Hi

Some discussion here.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1166&highlight=superbee

I have used them for a number of years and found them to be excellent, however as with all livestock there will be variation.

With reference to subsequent generations then the onus to be selective lies with the beek, AS WITH ALL RACES/STRAINS. And if you are doing little or nothing to insure the quality of future generations, then it's very much pot luck.


Regards Ian

 

[cstroud]

I have 6 hives which I keep on the allotment over the winter and move to their summer apiary on the edge of town in the summer.

Yesterday whilst down the allotment digging and tidying the bees were flying well and enjoying the sun. The original hive I have are a bit feisty to say the least and whilst working round them three went for me at different times and I managed to not get stung! I have no worries with the other hives at all.

they went up to the summer site early! and I will requeen in the spring. Nasty bees take all the pleasure out of beekeeping for me and I have experienced them!

lol
Chris

 

[grizzly]

Never 'let them go' if that is what you literally mean. Worker bees are your honey crop. You do not need to lose them, just the queen.
RAB

missed this one, what I mean is if I were to lose one even after using recommended prevention methods, I won't lose any sleep over it as I would have done in my first year, it's not always about the honey, you can very quickly end up with too much like last years spring and summer harvests.
This year I want to concentrate on the bee over the produce.

 

[johna]

Genetic diversity of bees has become more difficult as Varroa has decimated "wild" feral bees.There used to be lots of feral bees in our area but now I can't find a single colony ,only if a newly emerged swarm has taken up residence.They very quickly fall victim to varroa and act as a point of reinfection to other bees as they become robbed out.This spring I intend to bring in some fresh stocks from the south.I won't be buying Scottish colonies because of the severe outbreak of both AFB and EFB up here.I dont mind feisty bees too much,what I want are bees that are steady on the combs during inspections,I don't want bees that rush around and form balls of bees that drip off the comb.I find all bees respond calmly if the beekeeper is gentle with them and doesn't bump and bang about during inspections.I would however requeen "followers" as they definately pose a threat to the public.Bees can however be "conditioned" to movement in and around the apiary if you hang strips of cloth or plastic on canes and let them blow in the wind.Carnolians are only Carnolians in the 1st generation after that they revert to mongrels.2nd generation queens will produce a random selection of offspring,some quite different to others in the same colony dependant on how many matings she had and with which drones,remember they could be drones from a bad tempered colony.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Carnolians are only Carnolians in the 1st generation after that they revert to mongrels.

This of course depends on how remote your apairy is,or if you have other means of getting queens mated.
Which would of course apply to any strain of bee.

 

[Finman]

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Crossing F1 between Carniolan and Italian is very good.

When I had those, first swarmed pure Carniolans, then crossings and then pure Italians.

 

[Finman]

Genetic diversity of bees has become more difficult as Varroa has decimated "wild" feral bees..

Here too in Finland. Great thanks to varroa that it killed German Blacks in few years. They were stupid bees.

You get genetic diversity as much as you bye from different origin of queens. But when I did that, my stock started to swarm and attack on me that good bye so called diversity.

 

[BKF Admin]

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Crossing F1 between Carniolan and Italian is very good.

When I had those, first swarmed pure Carniolans, then crossings and then pure Italians.

What about F2 ect Finman,how did you find them?

 

[Finman]

What about F2 ect Finman,how did you find them?

F2 has original genes only 25%. The diversity of queen daughters is wide. They have not any more selected features and the results move towards average. F1 has often hybrid power and take care that you do not use that in breeding.

What do you mean find? - I bye some queens from professional breeders and I read myself about 50 queens a summer . So my queens are all F1.

Breeding is selecting from genepool. If you do not select, the individuals became towards average. - I have tried many times but...