defensive bees

[applejack33]

Thanks Beefriendly. Will try escape board with empty supers under if I can get close enough without getting killed. Spent ten minutes removing stings from bee suit before putting in wash machine. Now waiting for it to finish washing.
High number of colonies due to original six making Queen cells all at same time and artificial swarms resulting in double the numbers.
Original bees were Buckfasts but over time have reverted to whatever is around, gradually getting worse over the past year.
No windup Millet, I tell it as it is.
We get buzzed in the garden and when mowing lawns so a bit more than when opening the hives.
Good thoughts JWF. Will move them away and trap the flyers tomorrow. Probably despatch the flyers and requeen the remainder if they are calmer. Have two colonies that are pretty grim so may move both and do the same with each.
Will come back with results.

 

[gregior]

Need advice please. Opened and inspected 8 of my 12 colonies today, found and marked 3 virgins. No particularly bad ones, no stings.
Left the known bad tempered colony till last. Lifted the roof of and before I had placed it on the ground was literally covered in bees. Luckily my BB wear suit is pretty good, the stings on the hood didn't get to me but on my arms at the top of the gauntlets/elbow area so many stings got through, can't count them and several have drawn blood plus neighbours came round at the same time because children were being chased in the garden. Plus they followed me 100 yards before gradually parting company.
That colony in particular has got to go, post haste, like immediately!
Question is what can I use apart from petrol?There is a brood box and two supers with a lot of honey/ nectar in and jam packed with bees. I would like to try and save the honey , maybe spin it out and save to feed back. Am I right in thinking soapy water would do the job, kill the bees that is, and how?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I had a hive like this a few years ago I was contemplating killing.I posted on here about it and one of the members came and relieved me of it .Otherwise I know what a terrible situation this is and would reccommend petrol.

 

[Millet]

Thanks Beefriendly. Will try escape board with empty supers under if I can get close enough without getting killed. Spent ten minutes removing stings from bee suit before putting in wash machine. Now waiting for it to finish washing.
High number of colonies due to original six making Queen cells all at same time and artificial swarms resulting in double the numbers.
Original bees were Buckfasts but over time have reverted to whatever is around, gradually getting worse over the past year.
No windup Millet, I tell it as it is.
We get buzzed in the garden and when mowing lawns so a bit more than when opening the hives.
Good thoughts JWF. Will move them away and trap the flyers tomorrow. Probably despatch the flyers and requeen the remainder if they are calmer. Have two colonies that are pretty grim so may move both and do the same with each.
Will come back with results.

Why would you mark a Virgin Queen.. thee is intrigued ..

 

[mickbees23]

Rather than introduce a new queen which may get bumped off in a week or 2 are you able to get a frame of eggs from a nicer colony. I had a colony last year which was a swarm I gathered. It was quite defensive which is something I had not experienced before. Although they were not followers they didn't like the crown board being removed. So I removed the queen and introduced another. They mobbed her to start with then all seemed ok for a week with eggs present, then they knocked her off and threw up a load of emergency cells. To be on the safe side I removed them all and introduced a frame from another colony and made them raise a new queen on that frame. As of this year they are on double brood and 3 supers with the queen they raised and a pleasure. It was just a bit of a pain last year waiting for the old queens bees to die off.

Just an idea, good luck.

Cheers, Mick.

 

[Millet]

Rather than introduce a new queen which may get bumped off in a week or 2 are you able to get a frame of eggs from a nicer colony. I had a colony last year which was a swarm I gathered. It was quite defensive which is something I had not experienced before. Although they were not followers they didn't like the crown board being removed. So I removed the queen and introduced another. They mobbed her to start with then all seemed ok for a week with eggs present, then they knocked her off and threw up a load of emergency cells. To be on the safe side I removed them all and introduced a frame from another colony and made them raise a new queen on that frame. As of this year they are on double brood and 3 supers with the queen they raised and a pleasure. It was just a bit of a pain last year waiting for the old queens bees to die off.

Just an idea, good luck.


Cheers, Mick.

Post 17 ..

 

[colinc]

Why would you mark a Virgin Queen.. thee is intrigued ..

Only so you can track your pedigree, See B+ breeding threads.


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[Millet]

Only so you can track your pedigree, See B+ breeding threads.


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I know B+ marks his Virgin Queens with numbered discs but he does II .

 

[B+.]

I know B+ marks his Virgin Queens with numbered discs but he does II .

It's all about provenance.
If you track the grafts all the way through the process, and they emerge in cages in an incubator, you have 100% certainty that the queen is the one you think she is. Without marking, you don't.
It doesn't matter if they are open mated or instrumentally inseminated, I want certainty over everything I do.

 

[colinc]

I know B+ marks his Virgin Queens with numbered discs but he does II .

Sure there may be other reasons to mark virgins but it was the first I thought of. When I have marked my own I have always waited for them to be laying well. I don’t track pedigrees of my own bees.


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[madasafish]

The way I would tackle is as follows:

Make up a new floor about 3-10 meters away. With a clearer board as the base.

When it is dark and bees no longer flying,using a red LED so you can see what you are doing and not disturb the bees, block the original hive entrance and move individual supers onto the clearer board . Add as many empty supers as you took off onto the original hive, roof it and remove entrance block.

After 24 hours, your supers will be largely empty of bees and the original hive and supers full of them. Block entrance again and pour petrol in through CB. (Best done at night using LED again).

Move dead brood box and supers next day and place a spare on same site to mop up any loose bees. Extract supers.

 

[bingevader]

I had a hive like this a few years ago I was contemplating killing. I posted on here about it and one of the members came and relieved me of it.

This bit, definitely, no need for petrol.

We had 3 fairly nasty hives last year.
Once we were relatively sure they wouldn't swarm, we left them be all summer.
Don't know if it was just the weather, or they re-queened, or a bad batch of nectar(!), but they are fine this year.

Don't destroy them, let someone else sort them out if needs be.

 

[mickbees23]

Post 17 ..

Didn't read that far back...LOL

At least we are on the same wave length here in the North East

 

[Millet]

Didn't read that far back...LOL

At least we are on the same wave length here in the North East

 

[applejack33]

Bad tempered stingers

Hi folk
Update on last post. Spoke to a friend and asked about petrol method and she persuaded me to look for a new home (for the bees). As I didn't know of anyone that might accommodate me (them), friend managed to locate a farmer 5 miles away with an isolated field where I can keep them for a while.
Monday night 9.30 pm two other friends came to help. We strapped up securely, gaffered the entrance blocks in place, taking no chances, loaded on to trailer and set off. Arrived at farm after 10pm, drove across 2 fields and offloaded. Opened first hive entrance and a few bees came out. Took out entrance block of second one and they came out en masse although by now it was dark, 10.30pm.Drove back across fields before removing veils and immediately got stung on lip.
Have left them to it for now, but the plan is to requeen them shortly. Probably by uniting with a new young Queen in a nuc.
So, saved the cost of the petrol and no mess to clean up.
Will come back with progress report as and when.

 

[drex]

Well done. The requeening might be fun! Let us know how you get on. I would suggest you move the hive several yards away, and put an empty( but with frames) box on the original site. 24 hours later, when you come to look for the queen, most of the fliers, hence defensive bees, will have flown back to the new box on the original site making it easier to search for the queen, with fewer bees in which to find her. Once the new queen is settled in the boxes can be re United using newspaper .

 

[applejack33]

Bad tempered stingers

Follow up;
8 days ago left 2 bad tempered colonies taken to isolated field 5 miles away from home apiary. Yesterday 2 experienced beeks came with me to sort them out. Dull warm weather, not a great deal of flying bees. Opened what had been the worst tempered one...... Hardly any movement at all from them. We inspected the whole thing, supers and all. Found E,L and SB. Further look found a big new Queen (unmarked). Original was marked. Couldn't find any trace of a QC but think maybe supersedure. As all but 2 frames in the BB were covered in bees and the supers all frames almost covered, don't think swarmed. Will be adding another super tomorrow. Just about the calmest bees possible to have. Why they were so hostile is a mystery.
2nd colony still a bit defensive, about the same as before moving. Didn't find a Queen but E,L and SB so she must be there somewhere. Will be requeening asap. All in all satisfactory surprising result, and no stings.

 

[madasafish]

Well done.

 

[Millet]

Follow up;
8 days ago left 2 bad tempered colonies taken to isolated field 5 miles away from home apiary. Yesterday 2 experienced beeks came with me to sort them out. Dull warm weather, not a great deal of flying bees. Opened what had been the worst tempered one...... Hardly any movement at all from them. We inspected the whole thing, supers and all. Found E,L and SB. Further look found a big new Queen (unmarked). Original was marked. Couldn't find any trace of a QC but think maybe supersedure. As all but 2 frames in the BB were covered in bees and the supers all frames almost covered, don't think swarmed. Will be adding another super tomorrow. Just about the calmest bees possible to have. Why they were so hostile is a mystery.
2nd colony still a bit defensive, about the same as before moving. Didn't find a Queen but E,L and SB so she must be there somewhere. Will be requeening asap. All in all satisfactory surprising result, and no stings.

The paint might of worn of your old Queen i had to remark one at the begging of the season, i have also heard of folk saying angry colonies can calm down when they have been moved to another location.

 

[mintmoth]

Thanks for all the replies. very helpful in making up my mind....

I'd considered that a possibility, Colin, as they are so very grumpy, and thinking ahead already have a 6 frame nuc who are currently nursing a QC they built....

Finally decided to leave them alone and see what queen they produce and whether they would be less defensive.

Looked at this nuc today and there are eggs two or three days old and a very dark queen (her mother is quite orangey tan). The bees were good tempered and pretty much ignored me, so their new queen is doing them good.

The hive with the original queen is beginning to build up again after the split but not really enough bees there to get too shirty yet. We'll see.

The other half of the split, which had all the foragers from the double brood plus a BB of BIAS from which they made emergency QCs were pleasant today, which I take as a sign they have a new queen. Didn't disturb frames in the BB as the Q will only have emerged 3 or 4 days ago.

Checked to see what they were doing with the 2 supers (which I left on as there were so many bees) - the bottom one is just foundation, the top super had alternating extracted frames and frames with starter strips. The bees have ignored the bottom super and filled the drawn comb in the top super. They have ignored the frames with starter strips and drawn the already drawn frames right out in some patches almost to the centre of the empty frames - the cells must be over an inch deep in places - I had no idea they would build cells that deep for honey storage.

A wasp appeared and settled on a frame of the top super and for once I was quick enough to squash it with my hive tool. Even as I lifted the tool off it a worker pounced on it and whisked it away so swiftly that if I'd blinked I'd have missed it.

I learn every time I look at my bees.