defensive bees

[mintmoth]

The colony I acquired in November has become more and more defensive as they have built up. I had them on double brood as my plan was to split and make two colonies and they have become too unpleasant by far. So on Tuesday I split them, mostly so I could find the queen. Checked today and fortunately she is in the box without the foragers which made it easy to find her. I checked through the box with all the grumpy foragers far enough to find they have started at least one QC - I stopped at that point as I was getting fair covered in cross bees.

My question is - if I leave this QC to develop, is there any chance that the queen that emerges will produce better tempered workers than her mother, or do the genetics just keep getting worse and worse? Would I be better to re-queen and have done with that line of bees?

 

[Beefriendly]

My question is - if I leave this QC to develop, is there any chance that the queen that emerges will produce better tempered workers than her mother, or do the genetics just keep getting worse and worse? Would I be better to re-queen and have done with that line of bees?

It's a gamble with an unknown outcome and they could turn out to be even worse.
More sensible, me thinks, to re-queen with a know docile queen.

 

[enrico]

No one can answer that. It could go either way
E

 

[colinc]

But be careful as grumpy bees have a reputation for dispatching introduced queens.

Isn’t this hobby fun?


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[Bakerbee]

I have been in exact situation as you. Started last summer. Grumpy then grumpier now. Im requeening with buckfasts. Only 4 more days to wait till new strain begin to emerge then another 3 weeks till the grumps have passed on. I used a push in cage that i made nearly the size of a frame so the queen could start to lay to ensure acceptance. Theres some great vids on youtube as to how to make one. I cant wait for these angry bees to be gone. I have to get at least 30-40 yards away before the guards start to give up.

 

[Beefriendly]

have to get at least 30-40 yards away before the guards start to give up.

They are pussy cats ...my worst would pursue me inside my truck for 2 miles down the track.....

 

[Bakerbee]

Omg beefriendly did you keep your suit on? I can just imagine what youd look like driving along still veiled i didnt mind the chasing but i open up as gently as possible and they explode up into my face and ping off me like machine guns, surely thats not the calmest?

 

[Beefriendly]

Omg beefriendly did you keep your suit on? I can just imagine what youd look like driving along still veiled i didnt mind the chasing but i open up as gently as possible and they explode up into my face and ping off me like machine guns, surely thats not the calmest?

Yup... that is definitely the stuff you want rid of....Believe it or not those avid followers of mine were bees from Carniolan queens...and yes I did have to drive truck in full bee suit,,#

 

[Millet]

They are pussy cats ...my worst would pursue me inside my truck for 2 miles down the track.....

2 mile that is nothing.. a couple of mine followed me 70 mile down the A1 from Alnwick.. but then again i did leave my car window open with a super full of honey in the back..

 

[Bakerbee]

Almost fancy starting a thread of nastiest bee stories...

 

[mintmoth]

Thanks for all the replies. very helpful in making up my mind.

But be careful as grumpy bees have a reputation for dispatching introduced queens.

Isn’t this hobby fun?

I'd considered that a possibility, Colin, as they are so very grumpy, and thinking ahead already have a 6 frame nuc who are currently nursing a QC they built, the queen should emerge Monday or Tuesday.
I can give them a new queen, then unite them with the (now) smaller half that has the old queen. Then deal with the bigger half when some of their foragers have died off, either unite them or let them start again with a frame of eggs from the bought in queen.

Does that sound like a reasonable way to go?

 

[mintmoth]

After further thought, perhaps I would be better to requeen the nuc and the smaller colony with the old queen, then when most of the old foragers from the original hive have gone re-unite them with the smaller half and keep the nuc as it is for backup.

Thoughts, please.

 

[colinc]

I have not had truly savage bees (yet). I have had no issue combining 2 brood boxes through newspaper where I have recently squished one Queen and given them an hour to realise it. The Queen I squished was too hot for my garden but not horrific. The colony was also requeened with a sibling Queen so similar genes. I know people use a few frames from a few colonies to create a nuc colony then when ready to hive size wise combine back to a colony with Queen removed.

Final stumbling block with a big strong colony is if they have 2 queens in there, which I have not seen yet, but is more common than a lot of people realise and will turn requeening into a lottery/massacre.


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[mintmoth]

Final stumbling block with a big strong colony is if they have 2 queens in there, which I have not seen yet, but is more common than a lot of people realise and will turn requeening into a lottery/massacre.

Fairly sure there is no other queen or they wouldn't have started emergency QCs.

 

[applejack33]

Bad tempered stingers

Need advice please. Opened and inspected 8 of my 12 colonies today, found and marked 3 virgins. No particularly bad ones, no stings.
Left the known bad tempered colony till last. Lifted the roof of and before I had placed it on the ground was literally covered in bees. Luckily my BB wear suit is pretty good, the stings on the hood didn't get to me but on my arms at the top of the gauntlets/elbow area so many stings got through, can't count them and several have drawn blood plus neighbours came round at the same time because children were being chased in the garden. Plus they followed me 100 yards before gradually parting company.
That colony in particular has got to go, post haste, like immediately!
Question is what can I use apart from petrol?There is a brood box and two supers with a lot of honey/ nectar in and jam packed with bees. I would like to try and save the honey , maybe spin it out and save to feed back. Am I right in thinking soapy water would do the job, kill the bees that is, and how?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[colinc]

Fairly sure there is no other queen or they wouldn't have started emergency QCs.

Fair point

Always the issue when you start adding to thoughts with additional posts. I forget where I started.


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[Millet]

After further thought, perhaps I would be better to requeen the nuc and the smaller colony with the old queen, then when most of the old foragers from the original hive have gone re-unite them with the smaller half and keep the nuc as it is for backup.

Thoughts, please.

Last year i had a Evil mongrel colony headed by a laying worker so i had two reasons why it would have been hard to introduce a laying Queen, one being they where pure mental and two the laying worker issue.
I was gifted a frame of eggs and brood from a very generous forum member and bingo, they made Queen cells which i knocked down leaving one remaining, that colony has turned out to be my best for gathering nectar.

 

[Beefriendly]

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cornish local bees by any chance?
I'm not an expert on killing bees.. if you want the honey and not the hassle I would wait until dark add some sort of bee one way escape under the supers. Remove in the morning. If they are jam packed add empty supers beneath.
I'd seriously question that number of hives in close proximity to neighbors with kids. It's not a good combination.
Are they any bother unless you inspect them? Might give you a bit of breathing space...out apiary is the obvious way to go.

 

[Millet]

Cornish local bees by any chance?
I'm not an expert on killing bees.. if you want the honey and not the hassle I would wait until dark add some sort of bee one way escape under the supers. Remove in the morning. If they are jam packed add empty supers beneath.
I'd seriously question that number of hives in close proximity to neighbors with kids. It's not a good combination.
Are they any bother unless you inspect them? Might give you a bit of breathing space...out apiary is the obvious way to go.

Sounds like a wind up to me..

 

[JWF]

As its the flying bees that are causing the issue, could you move the original hive, and place an empty box at the original location. Once the fliers are in the new box you can shut them in and move them to somewhere else. The colony with the brood will be grumpy but without so many fliers it gives you a bit of time to sort them out / split them / requeen them. It will be easier to find the incumbent queen and despatch her too.

I've experienced bad bees this year and I hated it, it's made me paranoid that the remaining colonies could do the same thing too.