Forum Poll

[Anduril]

This poll has stemmed in part from the 'Hi from Devon' thread, amandajhumphries wishing to join the forum, hoping to be welcomed and treated with respect and instead being jumped on because of the group she belongs to, use of the term 'declining bee population'. I have suggested as an alternative category 'Alternative Beekeeping'. But this has been met with antipathy by the stalwarts of conventional beekeeping wisdom. Do you wish for the forum to grow with alternative ideas, to have a diverse mindset. Or is it a case of my or the highway attitude?

 

[Erichalfbee]

This poll has stemmed in part from the 'Hi from Devon' thread, amandajhumphries wishing to join the forum, hoping to be welcomed and treated with respect and instead being jumped on because of the group she belongs to, use of the term 'declining bee population'. I have suggested as an alternative category 'Alternative Beekeeping'. But this has been met with antipathy by the stalwarts of conventional beekeeping wisdom. Do you wish for the forum to grow with alternative ideas, to have a diverse mindset. Or is it a case of my or the highway attitude?

It’s not the moderators’ attitude.
The three of us are part time volunteers with little administrative input
The forum is run by an organisation which has hundreds of fora. They are not conducive to micro management

Grow with alternative ideas, to have a diverse mindset.

We can do that without yet another section

 

[Boston Bees]

This poll has stemmed in part from the 'Hi from Devon' thread, amandajhumphries wishing to join the forum, hoping to be welcomed and treated with respect and instead being jumped on because of the group she belongs to, use of the term 'declining bee population'. I have suggested as an alternative category 'Alternative Beekeeping'. But this has been met with antipathy by the stalwarts of conventional beekeeping wisdom. Do you wish for the forum to grow with alternative ideas, to have a diverse mindset. Or is it a case of my or the highway attitude?

Not antipathy I think, just scepticism as to the need?

What is going to be the difference with a post in the Alternative Beekeeping forum, as opposed to an identical post that just goes in the general Beekeeping Forum? Do you think it's going to be somehow protected from people who think what is being said in the post is factually incorrect?

Logically, if you have an Alternative Beekeeping forum, there must also be the need for a Conventional Beekeeping Forum. And so on ...

Also, I suspect you would start seeing spats over what is "Alternative". Are horizontal hives really alternative? Layens, maybe. Horizontal 14x12, not really. My hives are made from stacks of 6-frame nuc boxes - is that Alternative? (It's probably just Stupid, actually). Or is it about what you do with the bees?

Simplest, surely, to just start a thread in the general forum, and if you really don't want anyone to comment on it who doesn't have sympathy with an Alternative viewpoint, say so from the start.

 

[Anduril]

It’s not the moderators’ attitude.
The three of us are part time volunteers with little administrative input
The forum is run by an organisation which has hundreds of fora. They are not conducive to micro management


We can do that without yet another section

Did I use the term 'moderators' or even imply in my post?
No!

 

[Anduril]

Not antipathy I think, just scepticism as to the need?

What is going to be the difference with a post in the Alternative Beekeeping forum, as opposed to an identical post that just goes in the general Beekeeping Forum? Do you think it's going to be somehow protected from people who think what is being said in the post is factually incorrect?

Logically, if you have an Alternative Beekeeping forum, there must also be the need for a Conventional Beekeeping Forum. And so on ...

Also, I suspect you would start seeing spats over what is "Alternative". Are horizontal hives really alternative? Layens, maybe. Horizontal 14x12, not really. My hives are made from stacks of 6-frame nuc boxes - is that Alternative? (It's probably just Stupid, actually). Or is it about what you do with the bees?

Simplest, surely, to just start a thread in the general forum, and if you really don't want anyone to comment on it who doesn't have sympathy with an Alternative viewpoint, say so from the start.

We have already seen many spats and I can see it continuing.
Alas no progress.

 

[BugsInABox]

This poll has stemmed in part from the 'Hi from Devon' thread, amandajhumphries wishing to join the forum, hoping to be welcomed and treated with respect and instead being jumped on because of the group she belongs to, use of the term 'declining bee population'. I have suggested as an alternative category 'Alternative Beekeeping'. But this has been met with antipathy by the stalwarts of conventional beekeeping wisdom. Do you wish for the forum to grow with alternative ideas, to have a diverse mindset. Or is it a case of my or the highway attitude?

I'd have thought new perspectives would be welcome and lead to some interesting threads. But I hope that we will continue to be able to state facts even if they disagree with some of the tennants that an alternative practitioner might have hung a lot of their practices on. My worry would be that posters to an alternative forum might have a different expectation of havign to justify their practices and some fo the follow up posts on 'Hi from Devon' seem to suggest that.
Though, of course, putting anything down to lay lines generally gets a postive response here .

 

[pargyle]

This poll has stemmed in part from the 'Hi from Devon' thread, amandajhumphries wishing to join the forum, hoping to be welcomed and treated with respect and instead being jumped on because of the group she belongs to, use of the term 'declining bee population'. I have suggested as an alternative category 'Alternative Beekeeping'. But this has been met with antipathy by the stalwarts of conventional beekeeping wisdom. Do you wish for the forum to grow with alternative ideas, to have a diverse mindset. Or is it a case of my or the highway attitude?

No ...I didn't start the poll solely as a result of that thread ... there had been a number of criticisms of the forum from some members and I felt (in conjuction) that it was about time we got some evidence of what ALL the members thought/felt about the forum rather than a few who were particularly vocal. The great thing about a poll is that it can be anonymous ... you don't have to post a comment and lots of people have just voted without offering any comments ... so far so good and bad (before I'm accused of being partisan).

And let's face it .... I'm far away from being a 'conventional' beekeeper so, if anything, I lean towards the more diverse side of the forum.

 

[Anduril]

Though, of course, putting anything down to lay lines generally gets a postive response here .

Being somewhat open minded I bought the book 'An Holistic Way in Saving the Honeybee' by John Harding. It is a few years ago but iirc he was a stalwart of ley lines and said that he had no varroa due to the ley lines. Although it wasn't a good book, it did have an interesting idea that BIBBA use. Although I did find there was a difference of opinion about queen rearing techniques, one of them only wanted one technique to be taught when I spoke to BIBBA at one of the Welsh Conventions.

 

[pargyle]

Not antipathy I think, just scepticism as to the need?

What is going to be the difference with a post in the Alternative Beekeeping forum, as opposed to an identical post that just goes in the general Beekeeping Forum? Do you think it's going to be somehow protected from people who think what is being said in the post is factually incorrect?

Logically, if you have an Alternative Beekeeping forum, there must also be the need for a Conventional Beekeeping Forum. And so on ...

Also, I suspect you would start seeing spats over what is "Alternative". Are horizontal hives really alternative? Layens, maybe. Horizontal 14x12, not really. My hives are made from stacks of 6-frame nuc boxes - is that Alternative? (It's probably just Stupid, actually). Or is it about what you do with the bees?

Simplest, surely, to just start a thread in the general forum, and if you really don't want anyone to comment on it who doesn't have sympathy with an Alternative viewpoint, say so from the start.

Actually ... it's what I was about to say ... where's the I agree emoticon ?

 

[Anduril]

No ...I didn't start the poll solely as a result of that thread ... there had been a number of criticisms of the forum from some members and I felt (in conjuction) that it was about time we got some evidence of what ALL the members thought/felt about the forum rather than a few who were particularly vocal. The great thing about a poll is that it can be anonymous ... you don't have to post a comment and lots of people have just voted without offering any comments ... so far so good and bad (before I'm accused of being partisan).

And let's face it .... I'm far away from being a 'conventional' beekeeper so, if anything, I lean towards the more diverse side of the forum.

If you reread my post again, I used the term 'in part', so 'solely' doesn't come into the equation.

 

[Poly Hive]

It is impossible to underestimate the innate laziness of people.

PH

 

[pargyle]

We have already seen many spats and I can see it continuing.
Alas no progress.

If ever you put two or more beekeepers together there will be disagreement .. it's the nature of the craft - there are very few things that cannot be achieved in a plethora of ways. Seeking to avoid or stymie disagreement is not productive .. as long as the discussion remains polite and fact or experience based it's what forums are for (there's a clue in the name For ....ummmm)

 

[pargyle]

If you reread my post again, I used the term 'in part', so 'solely' doesn't come into the equation.

OK ...

 

[Lottie]

Yes, I used to spend 10 mins before work each morning reading the posts and comments. I have learned a great deal from the forum over the years about beekeeping and human nature. The beekeeping bit has generally been good the human nature bits often not so good.

I, too, find the sharing of information very useful. I can chose what bits I will use and what I won't. I think so often, it's not what we say that matters as much as how we say it.....it has to be said in an accessible way!

 

[Anduril]

If ever you put two or more beekeepers together there will be disagreement .. it's the nature of the craft - there are very few things that cannot be achieved in a plethora of ways. Seeking to avoid or stymie disagreement is not productive .. as long as the discussion remains polite and fact or experience based it's what forums are for (there's a clue in the name For ....ummmm)

Lol, sarcasm prevails

 

[Erichalfbee]

Lol, sarcasm prevails

Can we get back to the poll. Your input has been invaluable, you’ve had your say. Now can we move on please?

 

[Monbees]

Can we get back to the poll. Your input has been invaluable, you’ve had your say. Now can we move on please?

Before posting a question I always try the 'search', especially if I remember reading some thread relevant to my question, albeit months or even years ago. But I find that unless I am lucky enough to happen on the right phraseolgy or key words, my search doesn't bring up the thread I am looking for. Searching in Google followed by 'beekeeping forum' is often more productive.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Before posting a question I always try the 'search', especially if I remember reading some thread relevant to my question, albeit months or even years ago. But I find that unless I am lucky enough to happen on the right phraseolgy or key words, my search doesn't bring up the thread I am looking for. Searching in Google followed by 'beekeeping forum' is often more productive.

Yes the search function has always been bad. It throws up huge numbers of alternatives. It needs some sort of smart function but I suspect that is beyond the forum software

 

[Beesnaturally]

The forum is already too sub-divided as it is. Click on Forums and there are 23 sub-sections - waaaayy too many

Most people don't know or care what sub-section a post they are commenting on is in anyway. It appears in "New posts", sounds interesting, so they click on it and comment if they want. They don't care whether it's in the Beekeeping Forum, the Queen Rearing Forum, Honey Forum, Beehive & DIY Building Discussion Forum or Honeybee Health Forum.

The whole thing could be simplified down to four forums, from the current 15 odd:

Beginners Forum
Beekeeping Forum
Pesticides, Environmental & Political Issues Forum
Off-Topic Forum

There you go - another recommendation for you!

I very much couldn't disagree more. I'd like a space where I can talk about my approach to beekeeping without being jumped on. The plea for space for 'alternative' beekeepers comes because there is a domineering orthodoxy.

Just to be clear 'my kind of beekeeping' is the traditional genetic-husbandry model that was dominant from the beginnings of agriculture (indeed arguably enabled, and marks, the beginning of agriculture) until the 20th rise and now dominance of the (tragically misapplied) veterinary model.

Is 3500 years of husbandry to be confined to a blog?

 

[Boston Bees]

I very much couldn't disagree more. I'd like a space where I can talk about my approach to beekeeping without being jumped on. The plea for space for 'alternative' beekeepers comes because there is a domineering orthodoxy.

Just to be clear 'my kind of beekeeping' is the traditional genetic-husbandry model that was dominant from the beginnings of agriculture (indeed arguably enabled, and marks, the beginning of agriculture) until the 20th rise and now dominance of the (tragically misapplied) veterinary model.

Is 3500 years of husbandry to be confined to a blog?

Not at all. But something with that much history behind it certainly needs no "safe space" where its advocates are insulated from criticism that may offend them. We aren't university students, and this is a general beekeeping internet forum, not a specialist Facebook group.

There is only one group of people on this forum that needs protection against criticism, and that is beginners. They, quite rightly, have their own sub-forum, which generally works well I think.

With that exception, it simply isn't practical to expect people on this forum to keep out of sub-sections that are "protected", and not comment too critically on them. Think how bloated it would become, as each particular group demanded its own space, from "treatment-free", to "tree hive keepers", to "traditional genetic-husbandry", to "artificial-inseminators", etc etc etc.

So, if you really do feel that you need a safe space, setting up a specialist (say) Facebook group, or similar, is the way to go. You can tell people about it on this site, and direct people to it. You aren't going to find one here, sorry, it just isn't practical to expect that.

PS: I think that if you do create a safe space for yourself, with no-one to disagree with, you will soon become very bored. You love the to-and-fro on here really, admit it. You'd stop coming here if you didn't.